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[Two Wheels]

So, are we shying away from gas with Ethanol (ie like Mobil 1).  I typically go woth Chevron, with Techron, but thought the ethanol pitch was good as it workt to "clean the engine".   Is ethanol based gasoline not good for our air cooled v twins ?   Does it make a difference ?    MY 110 SERK is running great. Its that delicate balance.  Dont want to upset it ...

Thanks

[SERK3]

Hard to find gas that does not have ethonal in it around here, I run Shell and sometimes BP, 93 0ctane, My brother in law drives a gas tanker and alot of gas stations are talking about doing away with ethonal because it clogs up there filters at the pumps.

[timo482]

they can talk about doing away with ethanol all they want
isnt going to happen in the near term
in the midwestern states its mandatory that ethanol is in gas - except premium advertised for old engines - that "can" be sold without ethanol in it.
in mn it costs about 50 cents per gallon more than premium with ethanol.

some states like california are trying to fight ethanol and make all kinds of interesting claims that its not good for the environment etc.

   there are several reasons given
   1   california does not make much, if any ethanol, its all brought in in tanker train cars & that is "unfair"
   2   they cant bring in ethanol from brazil which would be cheaper & that is "unfair"
   3   we are going to cause folks to not have enough to eat & that is "unfair"

the actual issue about ethanol is really straight forward - folks all over the world complain about the bad old usa - but they will starve to death if they dont have our subsidized food [we provide food grains to poor countries at below cost and finance that subsidy with income taxes on americans] ethanol is a way to provide cleaner burning fuel for domestic use from domestic sources - while cutting the amount of subsidized foods we send over seas - the subsidies all stay here.

it really is a nasty quandary - there are several things that the us could do that would eliminate oil imports - its not unsolvable, nor technically difficult. its just not politically palatable to stop importing oil. the fundamental reason its not politically possible is that while our importation of oil comprises 90+ percent of the trade deficit - nobody wants to tell folks that the price of oil in nigeria just dropped to 10 bux a barrel because we wont buy it while here folks have to purchase 3 bux a gallon gas or electric cars or what have you. you see if WE wont buy imported oil, then oil IN the us will be very expensive and oil everywhere else will be very cheap.

if 80% of the freight that currently travels by truck went by train - 75% reduction in imported oil
if 80% of cars in the us got the fuel milage of a vw diesel car - 75% reduction in imported oil

where is the problem? we want it to be "somebody else" who has to ship by rail, drive a small car, burn ethanol, drive a electric car.

well somebody else doesnt exist - its all of us

fortunately all of us  on this board - we ride motorcycles, & get the milage of a vw diesel car

i think we have the right idea - use less gas regardless of the price - just on principle.

<grin>

[moscooter]

 

Geeez,  after all that commentary,  I was not sure which side of the issue he was on.........

Personally,  I think there is (more oil) out there,  just too much "push back" from environmental wackos to go after it.  Meanwhile,  we spend real fuel dollars to get enthanol out there and help the corn farmers..........   P.S.  Be sure not to use it in your boat motor..........Many problems.    

[SERK3]

Me either, But since i posted about taking the ethanol out of the gas, some gas station are already going so around here

[skreminegul07]

We subsidize the production of Ethanol and then it reduces mileage by 10%, so you buy 10% more.  How is that good for the envirinment?  Also it drives the price of corn up so we pay more to eat and the rst of the world suffers also.  The only benefit is to the farmers, Senators from the area, and producers of Ethanol.  my .02 cents

[spydglide]

All I know is that the quality of Hi-Test gasoline(whatever that is now) continues to deteriote and my scooters don't like it very well.....both performance & mileage suffer enough that you can tell.   aaaarrgh.  spyder

[timo482]

buying oil from folks who use the cash to buy guns to shoot us - is a really bad plan

but its very very unpopular to do much about it so we keep doing it.

we truly are addicted to oil.

the rumor that 10% ethanol in gas reduces milage 10% is pure myth & old wives tale - burning PURE ethanol or E85 will reduce milage 10% - but you paid NOTHING to folks who use the cash to buy guns to shoot us. folks confuse e85 that is 85% ethanol with e10 which is gas with ethanol in it.

the biggest producer of oil in the whole world supplied 90% of the men who flew airplanes into buildings a few years back - that is the real truth of the matter.

we are far far better off to work out how to get our bikes to run on gas with a little ethanol in it than continue to send good hard earned american bux to folks who use it to do us in.

many units of government in areas where very little ethanol is mfg are coming up with some creative reasons to not use the stuff. its quite amazing what kind of claims are being come up with. but the FACT that to survive as a nation we have to figure out how to stop importing oil is not going to go away by pretending it will go away.

japan attacked the us, fought a war, lost the war - all precipitated by us refusing to sell them oil. this is true fact - they imported all there oil, much of it from us & when they got cozy with hitler we cut them off. - if we get cut off from oil would we do the same thing? ewww.

just a bummer all around i think.

ride more - use less gas.

to

[geezerglide]

buying oil from folks who use the cash to buy guns to shoot us - is a really bad plan

but its very very unpopular to do much about it so we keep doing it.

many units of government in areas where very little ethanol is mfg are coming up with some creative reasons to not use the stuff. its quite amazing what kind of claims are being come up with. but the FACT that to survive as a nation we have to figure out how to stop importing oil is not going to go away by pretending it will go away.

just a bummer all around i think.

ride more - use less gas.

to

to,

The US still receives a large amount of oil from the middle east as you state and still Venezuela. More and more the US is getting more Oil from Alberta, Canada.

We are one of your best friends and trading partners. How many remember what our Canada's Ambassador (Ken Taylor) to Iran did when the US Embassy was taken over by "Student Protesters" back in 1979, he was instrumental in rescuing 6 of the hostages.

Rather than extracting Ethanol from food resources, I understand they are working on a process to extract Ethanol from wood fibres.

You can not ind a replacing for Oil and its byproducts overnight if at all. Of course all of the conspiracy theorists will tell you different.

geezerglide

[Twolanerider]

to,

The US still receives a large amount of oil from the middle east as you state and still Venezuela. More and more the US is getting more Oil from Alberta, Canada.

We are one of your best friends and trading partners. How many remember what our Canada's Ambassador (Ken Taylor) to Iran did when the US Embassy was taken over by "Student Protesters" back in 1979, he was instrumental in rescuing 6 of the hostages.

Rather than extracting Ethanol from food resources, I understand they are working on a process to extract Ethanol from wood fibres.

You can not ind a replacing for Oil and its byproducts overnight if at all. Of course all of the conspiracy theorists will tell you different.

geezerglide

Taylor put the entire remaining embassy staff at risk Leo.  At the time of course it couldn't be reported well.  Then the story of their efforts and alliance faded a bit over time.  Hopefully no one has forgotten.  Personally I've got no problem with the shale extraction going on in Alberta.  It makes a bloody awful mess.  But in an area that's something of a bloody awful mess to begin with.  Have they gotten the extraction costs down to where it's feasible/competitive unless the market is high?

[hogasm]

Geeez,  after all that commentary,  I was not sure which side of the issue he was on.........

Personally,  I think there is (more oil) out there,  just too much "push back" from environmental wackos to go after it.  Meanwhile,  we spend real fuel dollars to get enthanol out there and help the corn farmers..........   P.S.  Be sure not to use it in your boat motor..........Many problems.    

It did help the farmers the first year that ethanol went mainstream. Since then every farmer that was set up to raise corn, increased production and now there is an overproduction on corn and a very low price. So who did this really help.....not the farmer

Boat....friend just took his 34' Yellowfin back to the factory to have the fuel tanks cleaned....in a 290 gallon tank they removed 37 gallons of gunk. The ethanol deteriorated the fuel tank liner. The factory had to reline the tank with a new epoxy that the ethanol would not deteriorate.

[geezerglide]

Personally I've got no problem with the shale extraction going on in Alberta.  It makes a bloody awful mess.  But in an area that's something of a bloody awful mess to begin with.  Have they gotten the extraction costs down to where it's feasible/competitive unless the market is high?

2lane,

When you mention the "area is a bloody mess to begin with" I think you are refereeing to the Oilsands Projects north of Fort MacMurray. I would tend to agree with you. However what you see most often is Open Pit Mining, which scoops up the bitumen (Tar) loads into gigantic trucks which deliver it to a convertor system and transports it to and Extraction where it is processed and shipped by Pipeline south to be Upgraded to different finished products. It is a mess because what you see is Tar, tailing ponds full of dirty water which is used in the process. No different than what you see in any Open Mine Operation, be it in Canada, US or in Europe. What different Environmental Groups have failed to shown is the areas have been reclaimed, basically the old mining areas brought back to the way they where, reclaimed to their original condition, trees, plant, and wildlife, their are even Buffalo Herds on the original sites.

In regard to Coal Bed Methane and Shale Gas Recovery we are aware of the groundwater problems due to the large amounts of water that is required for drilling wells and high pressure injection into the aquifer along with different chemicals and grit that have contaminated a lot of the water in Wyoming for Coal bed Methane and in the Chesapeake area of Texas.

In Canada since we are a Johnny Come Lately to both Coal Bed Methane and Shale Gas Recovery we saw a lot of the problems that the Exploration Companies in the US had experienced and we hope to learn from those. We have tougher Environmental and Safety legislation which was enacted to hopefully prevent some of the problems with groundwater etc., of course this has increased costs compared to already established resources recovery in place, so the economics will be weighed and from that we will go forward with which is more profitable and environmentally friendly, and of course for now is Conventional Oil and Gas and Heavy Oil Recovery.

Getting back to the main theme of this post, I do not think Ethanol is the answer.

geezerglide

[skreminegul07]

buying oil from folks who use the cash to buy guns to shoot us - is a really bad plan

but its very very unpopular to do much about it so we keep doing it.

we truly are addicted to oil.

the rumor that 10% ethanol in gas reduces milage 10% is pure myth & old wives tale - burning PURE ethanol or E85 will reduce milage 10% - but you paid NOTHING to folks who use the cash to buy guns to shoot us. folks confuse e85 that is 85% ethanol with e10 which is gas with ethanol in it.

the biggest producer of oil in the whole world supplied 90% of the men who flew airplanes into buildings a few years back - that is the real truth of the matter.

we are far far better off to work out how to get our bikes to run on gas with a little ethanol in it than continue to send good hard earned american bux to folks who use it to do us in.

many units of government in areas where very little ethanol is mfg are coming up with some creative reasons to not use the stuff. its quite amazing what kind of claims are being come up with. but the FACT that to survive as a nation we have to figure out how to stop importing oil is not going to go away by pretending it will go away.

japan attacked the us, fought a war, lost the war - all precipitated by us refusing to sell them oil. this is true fact - they imported all there oil, much of it from us & when they got cozy with hitler we cut them off. - if we get cut off from oil would we do the same thing? ewww.

just a bummer all around i think.

ride more - use less gas.

to

I've personally noticed/measured  this and many others have as well.  If putting in 10% of something into to gas that has no effect good or bad, why put it in?  I have to by 10% more gas to go the same distance.  Stupid liberal math.  Corn farmers make more money.  High cost of food in the world causes a lot of the unrest and jealousy that feeds our enemies with suypport.

[HD Street Performance]

Better recheck the math
I am not an ethanol proponent, but get the facts straight.
Only 10% of a substance in a combustible liquid that produces 75% of the heat energy of pure octane, the remaining 90%, does not result in 10% less mileage.
If it's not ethanol it's MTBE or methanol, all are used as additives.
Many of the latest cars are multi calibrated to run on E85

[sadunbar]

Better recheck the math
I am not an ethanol proponent, but get the facts straight.
Only 10% of a substance in a combustible liquid that produces 75% of the heat energy of pure octane, the remaining 90%, does not result in 10% less mileage.
If it's not ethanol it's MTBE or methanol, all are used as additives.
Many of the latest cars are multi calibrated to run on E85

I also am not a proponent of Ethanol...  But here in the Midwest - we have little choice but to burn it.  I do not experience a significant mileage loss burning ethanol vs. not.....