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[Hotrod50]

Steve,  how much to have you install the stage 2 cams, etc.?   I have the baffles, catless, and your mastertune map on my 09 SERG.  Can you you do this in a day or two?   Rod,  Haysville, KS

[FLSTFI Dave]

Why three more HP with the andrews 54 in a 107 then in a CVO 110?  Is it the higher CR?  I did notice the 110 still made more torque.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Why three more HP with the andrews 54 in a 107 then in a CVO 110?  Is it the higher CR?  I did notice the 110 still made more torque.

I'll make an educated guess or two.

First off it's a different bike with different tolerances.  There could be minor differences in the heads, intake and TB.

But I think the main reason might be the bore/stroke difference between the two sizes.  I think the 107" has a shorter stroke and a larger bore (4" x 4.25") which in most car motors adds up to a bit more high end power with the sacrifice of a little low end torque.  The 110" (4" x 4.375") will be just a bit more of a torque motor than the 107".

If you allow for a couple % points either way from even day to day dyno runs on the same bike, the 3 hp could fall within the allowable margin of error.

Just the thoughts of a crazy old gray haired motorhead.

    

[Hoist!]

I'll make an educated guess or two.

First off it's a different bike with different tolerances.  There could be minor differences in the heads, intake and TB.

But I think the main reason might be the bore/stroke difference between the two sizes.  I think the 107" has a shorter stroke and a larger bore (4" x 4.25") which in most car motors adds up to a bit more high end power with the sacrifice of a little low end torque.  The 110" (4" x 4.375") will be just a bit more of a torque motor than the 107".

If you allow for a couple % points either way from even day to day dyno runs on the same bike, the 3 hp could fall within the allowable margin of error.

Just the thoughts of a crazy old gray haired motorhead.

    

There's a 107 thar uses slightly larger barrels than the 103 barrels, but still doesn't require boring the cases or taking them apart. That setup uses the stock crank. (If this is the setup he's referring to)

Hoist!

[HD Street Performance]

 installed a 107" big bore kit in the stock barrels. Andrews 54 cams. Stock pushrods. Stock heads with 6 cc removed to lower comp to 9.8.
Stock non cat headpipe, Stock mufflers recored with my 2.0 cores. SE HB AC.
Thats it!

105 HP with 113 TQ with stock heads. Unbelievable. I told the customer to expect 96-98 HP. These 09 heads are good, really good.

Those are nice results and I am sure it runs good.
Just for clarification please disclose the dome or dish volume of your pistons, and if the dyno tests were in SAE, what gear, or STD.
I have seen no improvement with the 09 heads but not saying they are bad, just the same as 06up. The MERC castings 07up in the 09 year are showing porosity when they are cleaned of powder coating.

Steve
I would love to give you a set of inexpensive, minimally reworked, heads to create "stage IV". You would be surprised what a differance 1.90 intake valve and just a blueprint would do for a customer retail price of $325. Call me up and we can talk. Just had a report that on an 09 dyna with those heads and 103" cast flatops (10.3/1) and 55 cams bike pulled 104/109 and tuned with a TFI dials all the way up because it still wanted more fuel and was lean on top. Stock redline and download!

Can only imagine what the 107 would do with an expert tune and your pipes.
Don

[Fullsac Performance]

installed a 107" big bore kit in the stock barrels. Andrews 54 cams. Stock pushrods. Stock heads with 6 cc removed to lower comp to 9.8.
Stock non cat headpipe, Stock mufflers recored with my 2.0 cores. SE HB AC.
Thats it!

105 HP with 113 TQ with stock heads. Unbelievable. I told the customer to expect 96-98 HP. These 09 heads are good, really good.

Those are nice results and I am sure it runs good.
Just for clarification please disclose the dome or dish volume of your pistons, and if the dyno tests were in SAE, what gear, or STD.
I have seen no improvement with the 09 heads but not saying they are bad, just the same as 06up. The MERC castings 07up in the 09 year are showing porosity when they are cleaned of powder coating.

Steve
I would love to give you a set of inexpensive, minimally reworked, heads to create "stage IV". You would be surprised what a differance 1.90 intake valve and just a blueprint would do for a customer retail price of $325. Call me up and we can talk. Just had a report that on an 09 dyna with those heads and 103" cast flatops (10.3/1) and 55 cams bike pulled 104/109 and tuned with a TFI dials all the way up because it still wanted more fuel and was lean on top. Stock redline and download!

Can only imagine what the 107 would do with an expert tune and your pipes.
Don

Hey Don

If memory serves me, 4cc dish in the piston and 89cc chamber vollume. Dyno run shown was the best of the best at 105 hp. 5th gear STD.
Bike would crank out 103 HP run after run. Had the 107 RK here last week for a check up after a 1000 miles. Made 101 HP and 114 TQ.
Different day, different weather, different numbers.
My stock 07 96" made 62 HP. My stock 09 96" made 70 HP. Something is better for sure. Heads? TB?
I have a brand new stock 2010 96" hitting the dyno in the morning. Any predictions?

Steve George

[StreetDog]

Steve, I'm wondering if the 110 heads are updated with the same casting improvements as the 96'. Do you know or can you let us know when you find out? 

[HD Street Performance]

Motors vary. There are the good sealing ones that have less sump oil and then the others. Dynos vary and weather and many other factors play a part in the result. The casting numbers on the heads the machining, the valve sizes tell the story if they changed anything that would affect performance. I tear them apart every day and am here to tell you they have not changed the 96" casting except the 08up has added the front holes which is only a machining operation, not a casting change. They did change vendors midstream and the Merc castings are the same physically except the alloy used.
The 110 heads
They are the same from 07up physically, the ports. The FBW front head is a new casting number but the ports remained unchanged. Harley did make running changes in the 110 heads strictly for oil consumption and reliability. No performance enhancements were made.
In most cases I would expect them to be equal and any differances observed could be chalked up to the tune and motor health. Oil in the combustion sealing sump oil differances in injector flow...
In the case of the stock motor the tune is generic, one size fits all. It fits many but not all. Add new pipes and air filter enhancements and the fun begins. Change cams and TB and more fun. Routine stuff for a tuner to fix (a tuner not tooner)

[jfh]

I'll make an educated guess or two.

First off it's a different bike with different tolerances.  There could be minor differences in the heads, intake and TB.

But I think the main reason might be the bore/stroke difference between the two sizes.  I think the 107" has a shorter stroke and a larger bore (4" x 4.25") which in most car motors adds up to a bit more high end power with the sacrifice of a little low end torque. The 110" (4" x 4.375") will be just a bit more of a torque motor than the 107".

If you allow for a couple % points either way from even day to day dyno runs on the same bike, the 3 hp could fall within the allowable margin of error.

Just the thoughts of a crazy old gray haired motorhead.

     

Dan,

The 107 that Steve built is using a stock 96: crank with 4.375" stroke.

[HOGMIKE]

Just as a little FYI.......
I'm trying to get my scanner to work, sorry about the quality!
This is a page from the specs right out of the book........notice the bore and stroke changes from 96 to 103.......interesting!

[Hoist!]

Just as a little FYI.......
I'm trying to get my scanner to work, this is a page from the specs right out of the book........notice the bore and stroke changes from 96 to 103.......interesting!

What am I missing here? Standard HD conversion kit. Same crank. No stroke changes. Gotta be a typo or rounding off. Maybe they meant 4-3/8ths! They only use larger pistons. The 103 kit uses the same size spigot holes as the 96, to allow a bolt on 103. Just like they did with the 88" to 95" conversion. They make a 107" conversion to do the same thing too. Not HD though. All use the stock crank. And that's a 4.375" as far as I know!

Hoist!

[HOGMIKE]

What am I missing here? Standard HD conversion kit. Same crank. No stroke changes. Gotta be a typo or rounding off. Maybe they meant 4-3/8ths! They only use larger pistons. The 103 kit uses the same size spigot holes as the 96, to allow a bolt on 103. Just like they did with the 88" to 95" conversion. They make a 107" conversion to do the same thing too. Not HD though. All use the stock crank. And that's a 4.375" as far as I know!

Hoist!

OR.................maybe they change specs like they change tolerances?
Just a thought!

[StreetDog]

Anyone have the specs (lift,durations,overlap,ect) on the andrews 54h cams. I can't find it on their wed site And is this a good cam for the 110?

[jfh]

Anyone have the specs (lift,durations,overlap,ect) on the andrews 54h cams. I can't find it on their wed site And is this a good cam for the 110?

      Timing   Duration     Lift
Int  16/42     238          .555
Exh 42/15     238          .555

Additional specs are in the Andrews .pdf file attached below.

[HD Street Performance]

My preference would be the 32h but the two are VERY close. I like the fact that the 32 would be a little more immune to a less than great pipe but still can benefit from one and it carries a little more lift.