Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[HDMonsterTorque]

Can be. Depending on the weather the correctionfactor can be (close to) 1.

[syclone]

The motor is just too lean eveywhere .  you notice at the peak torque area of the curve it's running at 15.0:1 ..thats from 3300-4000 rpm..and doesnt go to 14.0 till 5000.
Sorry, but I'm not ridiing it at WOT at 15.0:1...the a/f ratio on that entire pull should not go leaner than 13.8 anywhere..and should gradually richen to between 13.0-13.6:1
And I thought the canned SERT maps were lean !!

[jeffj]

The motor is just too lean eveywhere .  you notice at the peak torque area of the curve it's running at 15.0:1 ..thats from 3300-4000 rpm..and doesnt go to 14.0 till 5000.
Sorry, but I'm not ridiing it at [highlight]WOT[/highlight] at 15.0:1...the a/f ratio on that entire pull should not go leaner than 13.8 anywhere..and should gradually richen to between 13.0-13.6:1
And I thought the canned SERT maps were lean !!

Still learning all the techy stuff

What is WOT?

[grc]

Still learning all the techy stuff

What is WOT?

Wide Open Throttle        Same as WFO  (Wide F'ing Open)

[jeffj]

Wide Open Throttle        Same as WFO  (Wide F'ing Open)

grc,

Thanks I thought that was what it meant but wasn't 100% sure.

That solves my issue with AFR being High as I don't ride WOT
My scooter was bought for cruising down the highway at 10 to 20 mph over the speed limit
With the ponies and torque I have it doesn't require WOT

If my logic/theory is way off, please explain


jeffj

[JCZ]

My scooter was bought for cruising down the highway at 10 to 20 mph over the speed limit


jeffj

See you guys..........I'm not the only one! [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[Twolanerider]

If my logic/theory is way off, please explain

jeffj

Never suddenly twist the wick hard to get around that truck in a hurry?

[jeffj]

Never suddenly twist the wick hard to get around that truck in a hurry?

LOL, well yeah but not for sustain periods of time

Guess what I am trying to say is I am not a Dyno, Drag or a Road Racer
My scooter is to get me from point A to point B in a quick/enjoyable safe time.

To be quite honest I very seldom ever take the scooter past 100 mph and if I do it's not sustained for long. When I am riding that Fast the thoughts of The 4th of July 2003 Motorcycle accident flashes back in my head and I get the scooter back down to 80 mph or so.

I do realize there are members at our board that do the WOT and they have issues/concerns and I can appreciate that but with my riding style I don't think I will seize my motor up this weekend when I am running 80 mph @ 3,200 rpms down the I5 in California

[syclone]

LOL, well yeah but not for sustain periods of time

Guess what I am trying to say is I am not a Dyno, Drag or a Road Racer
My scooter is to get me from point A to point B in a quick/enjoyable safe time.

To be quite honest I very seldom ever take the scooter past 100 mph and if I do it's not sustained for long. When I am riding that Fast the thoughts of The 4th of July 2003 Motorcycle accident flashes back in my head and I get the scooter back down to 80 mph or so.

I do realize there are members at our board that do the WOT and they have issues/concerns and I can appreciate that but with my riding style I don't think I will seize my motor up this weekend when I am running 80 mph @ 3,200 rpms down the I5 in California

So you take off from a light....twist the throttle wide open in first..but shift at 3500...wide open and short shift again at only 3500...shift to third .easy accel..shift to fourth and cruise at 45 mph.  Now I know you must do that quite often.....Well it's still WAY too lean ANY time it's at full throttle...reguardless of the speed in MPH or the RPM range.

[grc]

jeffj,

While you may not run at WOT very much (neither do I), the air/fuel ratio is still important.  What would be more beneficial to many of us would be a chart showing the A/F at various throttle positions and load levels.  An excessively lean mixture, like the stock setup from H-D, can and will cause detonation and overheating.  If its excessively lean at WOT, you can cause some major damage to pistons and valves.  The stoichiometric (theoretically perfect) A/F is approximately 14.7:1 at sea level, but in the real world you need something a little richer than that (14.0 - 14.5) due to inefficiencies in the combustion process.  At WOT you will normally see the A/F drop to 13.2 - 13.8.

Jerry

[HDMonsterTorque]

Jeffj,

"That solves my issue with AFR being High as I don't ride WOT"
Who says so? Maybe your cruising AFR is even leaner .....
That's the beauty of EFI. You can change the amount of fuel supplied in MANY circumstances.
Fuel is supplied by looking at TP (Throttle position), MAP (Load) and RPM.

An AFR of 12:1 at WOT doesn't tell you anything at cruise. The stock 1450 map for example seems to be quite ok at WOT but way too lean at cruise.
The only way to tell is by putting the bike at a dyno with load retarder controlled drum. This way every TP and RPM position can be monitored and changed.

[HDMonsterTorque]

These  screen prints give you an idea of the number of cells that can be / need to be changed.
Ve = volumetric efficiency.

[syclone]

An excellent post HDMonsterTorque. I see those damn tables in my dreams sometimes....thats only when the voices stop though and let me fall asleep !

[JCZ]

I have a contact at the MoCo that I consult from time to time and he's been helpful to me and this site, in the early days.  I wrote and asked him a question about dyno tuning (don't remember now exactly what the question was) but he passed it along to the man at HD that he thought had the most knowledge and experience with the 103" motor and tuning and here is that man's response (as always, my source will remain namless):

I'm not sure exactly what they did.    I can tell you that my friend at HD sent my dyno sheet to the person that he thought to be the most knowledgable person at the Motor Company, regarding the 103" and this was his response to my first dyno:
 
"the torque being up high in rpm is mainly a result of the CVO cam.....the cam is actually a high rpm cam....it is good for about 7000 rpm peak HP....with the right induction module/carb.
 
As far as making it pull a little better on the bottom end....I would try rolling some timing in....as you know when we cal we have to do it for worst case.....hot, high comp, etc. ....his engine may be able to handle a little more...... but remember if he takes it to Az. he may need to be careful.....hot with bad fuel......ion sensor should correct for this.....but it is a picky beast.
[highlight]
As a side note.....it looks like the AFR is flat at 13.5:1......this is recommended in the manuel to ease tunning....but he may pick up a little at WOT with a slightly richer (12. AFR.....and I hope the cruise range was returned to 14.5 or so......I am afraid some technicians have tuned the VE values to achieve the 13.5:1 every where and then leave it.....AFR table should be returned to something similar to what was in the base cal and then tweaked for power after the VE's are returned...." [/highlight]
 
I took this email with me, when I took the bike back for the re-tune.  Other than that, don't really know what they did and they seem to want to keep the details close to the chest.

[CVOJOE]

JC is right on in his thread, here's what I got from a tuner-head up the road a piece at RC cycles:

 "We typically use  a Lambda of 0.85 (Air-Fuel ratio of 12.5) for full throttle sustained power, 0.88 (air-fuel ratio of 13:1) for acceleration, and 0.96 (air-fuel ratio of 14:1) for cruise, with graduations between these points."

Seems to me like some tuners are just "set it and forget it" types and either don't fully understand or just want to get the scooter out the door and go home.