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[jdracing]

The new (to me) SEEG ('05 Cherry, if you haven't been following my thread in the Ultra forum) needs its 1000 mile service.  My local dealer assures me that doing it myself won't affect the warranty as long as I keep the receipts showing when I bought the oil, etc, and he suggested I note the service/date, etc. in the chart in the owners manual.  This got me to thinking about the whole question of bringing bikes in for service and handing the bike over to the dealer for a day or two.

I'm in the process of putting saddlebag crash bars on the bike, and have been reading in other threads about dealers managing to damage bikes/paint while in for service, warranty work, or accessory installation.  I have an automotive repair and motorcycle crew chief/race tuning/engine building background (two AMA 250 GP National Championships with rider Chuck Sorensen), so I'm comfortable doing about anything with/to the bike with a manual and the right tools.  In putting on these crash bars, I'm probably taking 2-3 times as long as a dealer would to do it, because I'm cleaning while disassembling, and fitting/refitting pieces to make them just right.  

It occurred to me a dealer would never spend this much time trying to make it right, as opposed to making flat rate, and therein lies the basic dichotomy of Harley ownership.  Harley sells the mystique and loyalty of the brand, encouraging pride (and with it the desire for perfection or at least "correctness") in the ownership of their products.  We all have Harleys not only because we like the physical attributes/style/sound/feel/etc, but because it's a Harley, with the history, heritage, branding, "coolness factor," etc.  If Honda made the IDENTICAL bike to the SEEG in every regard, I don't know about you, but I'd still buy the Harley, even at 50% more.  And the Honda would probably be better built.

As a result, we spend insane amounts on Harley accessories, chrome, clothes, upgrades, and new bikes, because we have pride in the brand and in our ownership of these bikes--exactly the way Harley wants it-- Harley pushes that philosophy every bit as hard as Disney pushes the "magic" of Disneyland, the characters, and its products.

Nevertheless, when it goes into the dealer for service, our pride of ownership in these bikes and the brand comes into direct conflict with the service department's flat rate schedules and desire to get these bikes in and out as fast as possible to maximize profit.  And profit motive will always win out over carefulness.  As a result, I'm terrified of the dealer's service department.  Working on these bikes and trying to keep them as close to "right" as possible is as much a labor of love as anything, yet no dealer can afford to approach it that way.  

I guess for warranty work, we don't have much choice, but I'm just not interested in putting my bike into the hands of someone, knowledgeable as they might be about them, who isn't motivated by the same thing which Harley's marketing efforts and products have managed to get me to buy into.  Harley wants me to love their products and the brand (and I do), but their dealers can't afford to treat them that way.  Guess I'll be servicing it myself.  

Do others feel that way, or is it just "new bike paranoia?"

Jeff

[hd-dude]

Jeff;
Very well said. I feel the same way as you do. Get the manuals and tools and do the job yourself. It will be done right and better than most dealers would do it. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
I do all of my own work and a bunch of work on other bikes because poeple just don't trust the dealers.

[grc]

Exactly the way I feel also.  I even do some things that should be warranty, as long as the cost isn't very high, just to keep the bike out of the dealer's hands.  BTW - I'm the same way with cars, so it isn't just a "Harley" thing.

Jerry

[RedFXR2]

I agree.  All that is why I started working on my own cars years ago.

It's nothing personal with the dealers--just business.  And that's exactly the problem.  They're in business to make money, not fuss over a customers' bike, and that means charging the most they can for the least amount of time spent.  Yet, like you point out, Harley goes to great lengths to make your connection with their product as personal as possible.  There is a definite disconnect between the dealer's position and the customer's interests.

Me, I'm a fair mechanic, but I have less time these days, and I don't always have the proper tools so I do routine stuff myself and (lucky for me) there's an Indy shop nearby that has more than just time=dollars interest in motorcycles so I let them do whatever I'm uncomfortable with and so far I've been comopletely pleased with their work.  I've never let a dealer work on my bike.

[Twolanerider]

Agreed Jeff.  There are too many legitimate problem stories that come from dealer service (in or out of warranty).  Granted, the real problems then breed stories or at least fears of even more.  But there are real issues.  

By federal statute we can't be disallowed from doing required maintenance.  Actually that's not quite true.  A manufacturer can mandate specific maintenance be done by them, including things like which fluids you use.  But if they do they have to provide it for free.

Even if there were no concern about damage or just badly done service, however, the rest of your question regarding the time taken to perform versus pamper still holds up.  Even on a good day at the shop there is still less risk of mistake if it's one guy (you) working on one bike (yours) in an environment without other bikes being pushed around and equipment being moved from stall to stall for other service.

If someone simply doesn't wish to or thinks themselves unable to accomplish service or maintenance that's fine too.  Make the effort to shop out a service department you trust.  Then watch the results as closely as you can.  But if one is so inclined there is no warranty repercussion to doing it yourself and there certainly is a bit more peace of mind.

[Screamin]

You're right of course. The key is to know your limitations and mine fall short of your's and some others. Also, you've got to invest a bunch of bucks or know a really good friend willing to lend you their specialty tools. My best option has been and still is a good shop w/ well trained wrenches that you can bond w/.

[jdracing]

Well, I seriously doubt my skills exceed that of anyone on this forum.  But I've always said that, when it comes to things mechanical, what I lack in ability, skill and experience, I make up for in blind, irrational, confidence.  

[Twolanerider]

Well, I seriously doubt my skills exceed that of anyone on this forum.  But I've always said that, when it comes to things mechanical, what I lack in ability, skill and experience, I make up for in blind, irrational, confidence.  

Jeff, beer has the same effect on the "irrational" part of confidence that it does on beauty at 3:00 AM.

[CVOJOE]

Just keep good records of your maintenence and receipts for parts, oil, etc. in case there is an issue at a later date or if you transfer the warranty to someone else. I keep a simple log of what was done, date and mileage and keep the receipts in the same folder. It has helped a lot in the past for both 4-wheel and H-D warranty issues. You can always take it to a trusted shop for something that's over your head, but also save yourself some $'s in the end by buying the factory service and parts manuals. The electrical troubleshooting manual is an option in most cases since the diagrams are in the service manual itself. Plenty of moral and technical support here for you. Beers, well that's a do-it-yourself deal.  [smiley=drink.gif]

[GC_Super]

I agree with this theme 100 %.  When the subject of the 1000 mile checkup cam up for my new bike, I told the dealer I would probably do it myself. He looked at me like I was crazy, but I said nobody will treat my bike like I will myself. My mechanical skills are limited to basic stuff, but last year I had to pull my starter off my 03 E Glide. Pretty fair job, but not too bad if you take your time. But several times during the process, I took time to clean road grime and other stuff that was now accessible with pipes and starter off and  I thought that no one else but me would have done that. It's all about pride of ownership. Not to mention the hassle of taking the bike, dropping it off, either taking a trailer or having to get a ride back. Much better to just do it yourself.

[erniezap]

I do the basics myself, warranty work at the dealer, and everything else goes to Jim (HD-Dude).  There's nothing like having someone with the expertise that you can trust to treat your bike like it is their own.  Thanks Jim!

[Mikey]

I find that most dealerships have $10.00 per hour oil changers that do the scheduled maintence. They have some experienced techs that deal with serious problems but not the service schedule. After watching the service performed for the 1k. I will never return for service. The manual has  a complete check list that details each step. I installed the stage 1 kit and had the dealer do the down load. The next time I had the cover off I noticed the clamp that holds the connector was broken. Just another sign of sloppy work. The next thing is to buy a parts manual. The parts departments at both local dealers are totally helpless.  Just my experiences.

[HUBBARD]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, jd,
  I house Ol' Maudie in OTIS's garage.  We, or I should say OTIS, can handle any and all needed PM, add-on accessories, or electrical situations on my Bike.  OTIS does his own mechanical upgrades and repairs, when I'm not around, I might add!  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] For my major Power Train Modifications and Tuning, which is beyond my abilities now, I rely on my personal technician to handle.  That's right.  Only ONE person does my major work.  He treats the "Led Sled" like it was his.  After all, he is a part if its Notoriety!  For that special attention, I always put a $50 or $100 bill in his shirt pocket, and tell him how much I appreciate him, and the special care he takes with my Bike, when the job is done.  Not as a bribe, but as a token of my true apprecaition.  After all, if it were not for money, the story of "The Good Samaritan", wouldn't be a story.  They really do make me feel special when I call, or drop in.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD

[Fired00d]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, jd,
  I house Ol' Maudie in OTIS's garage.  We, or I should say OTIS, can handle any and all needed PM, add-on accessories, or electrical situations on my Bike.  OTIS does his own mechanical upgrades and repairs, when I'm not around, I might add!  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] For my major Power Train Modifications and Tuning, which is beyond my abilities now, I rely on my personal technician to handle.  [highlight]That's right.  Only ONE person does my major work.  He treats the "Led Sled" like it was his.[/highlight]  After all, he is a part if its Notoriety!  For that special attention, [highlight]I always put a $50 or $100 bill in his shirt pocket, and tell him how much I appreciate him, and the special care he takes with my Bike, when the job is done.  Not as a bribe, but as a token of my true apprecaition.[/highlight]  After all, if it were not for money, the story of "The Good Samaritan", wouldn't be a story.  They really do make me feel special when I call, or drop in.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD

For me personally I don't have the tools to do the job w/o frustrating the hell out of me. I find it cheaper to pay someone else that has the tools and know how to accomplish tasks I can't do on my own. I do own the service manuals for my bike and can see how a lot of the things are done (and they have actually saved me from breaking stuff). I upgraded my '04 headlights to the '05 clear lens lights, and while disconnecting the headlight bulb I was pulling and prying and nothing happened, decided to open the manual and found out there was a clip that needed to be depressed to release bulb. Now that alone saved me some aggravation and some dollars. Also after joining this forum I've felt more inclined and comfortable doing things that I wouldn't think of before. It's nice knowing if you have questions you can come here and get answers. If only I lived closer to some of you that enjoy "tinkering" more then I do, you would never have to buy beer.  [smiley=drink.gif]

However as Hubbard mentions above and I've highlighted I have only a few technicians I allow to work on my bike. I feel that when you take your bike to shop it's almost like you going to the doctor. I want a personal relationship with the person that is working on my bike, like I have with my primary care physician. I want my bike to be serviced by the same technician like I want to see my same primary physician when I set up an appointment. Some may think this is anal, but I believe it creates a line of communication and trust, that technician knows your bike, knows how you ride it, and you can relate nuances to him/her. I have been back to service area (please don't tell my dealers insurance company) and talked to technician while they are working on my bike, asked questions, and have found them to be very helpful. I have given them gifts before as appreciation of my gratitude (he likes cigars, good ones that you aren’t supposed to get   ), and wouldn't have any problem slipping some "Benjamin's" in his pocket either.

I think the main thing we all want is work done right, and positively no damage done to bike from their hastiness or negligence.

On the subject of being anal, I don't even let them wash my bike after servicing, I bring it home and detail it myself.  

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[CVOJOE]

Naturally Hubbard has the correct approach. I try and have only one (senior) tech. work on mine, and maybe an alternate. I always get them a gratuity of some sort, maybe a gift certificate for restaurant or $'s on a regular basis, just depends upon their personnel policies. Had a great experience on the road one time, really crazy electrical problem and happened to be within 50 miles of a dealership so I managed to make it there. He spent day and a half on the harnesses and finally found literally a pin hole that was causing an intermittent short. I had to leave that afternoon, so took them time to later write the GM a letter praising the tech. and then mailed the tech. a nice token of appreciation. I would be if I stop there, they'll remember. Pays to know people in low places  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]