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[Wild Card]

Hey Rob,

I tend to agree with that statement by itself.  The problem is that as a whole, there's nothing that can't be done with the P&A book.  This years models, CVO and otherwise, are really the exact same thing as last year but with some different P&A stuff here and there.  The Road Glide is cool.  But I'd rather buy the '09 which was much cooler and add a TourPak, Lowers and CB. 

After so many years now with no major change or refinements other then the touring frame, I'd like to see the MoCo do something to attract a broader audience.  We're all getting old(er?)  and I'd like to see the MoCo kicking ass and taking names like it did in the 90s.  One, to ensure an option for my kid to always buy American and two because I'm a sentimental bastard.  Really, the '02 V-Rod is the last major innovation.  ABS, Touring Frame, were big, but not major, and I'd personally say that the 96/110 upgrade and 6 speed were not as big as the hype made it out to be.

I'd buy one of these bikes because they're what I like.  But since I have one that isn't missing anything of significance (sorry Jeff, I've ridden the new framed bike and it's nice, but not worth trading mine over) that's available on these bikes I'll pass.  Many of the people I've talked to feel the same way.  So if a bunch of the loyalists like me are happy and staying with what we've got, and the youngins are looking jap and german, then the MoCo will continue it's downward spiral.  Just my opinion and I hope like hell that I'm wrong.

Ride Safe,
JC

JC, I tend to agree with you here.  This year seems rather lackluster in the offerings.  But, to stay afloat in this economy, I feel they did the right thing, and if their Qtr2 financials are any indication, they're learning from their past foibles.  They know the touring bikes are their bread and butter so they are going to milk that cash cow and thus, we see 3.5 of the 4 CVO's are touring models.  However, I think they are slowing doing what they can without completely offending the diehards to attract young blood and women.  The Superlow, XR1200, Fourty-eight are all attempts to garner interest from the younger and less financially capable crowd.  The V-Rod and Deluxe (this bike got my fiance' into the game due to it's rider position and ease of handling) are full-price options that cater to a slightly different riding position or style.  

Let's be honest, most people my age (31) can only get into the classic Harley if they have really good jobs coupled with that free-spirited lifestyle or image we're looking for.  Their price point is also a large contributor to the fact that there has been a shift in ownership to a larger white-collar demographic.  Hell, I had to enter the game with a Sportster Custom.  I'm sure that bike (and the likes of the 48 or Superlow) is still serving as a gateway drug for many!

[retired_colonel]

I called about 10 dealers today about the SESG2 and most are getting the Green one next week.  Did anyone notice the green SESG2 has a gloss black engine?  None of the other SESG2's have that.  Even the black one has the standard silver engine.  I am going with either the Green one or the orange one.  My oldest daughter named the green one the snot rod!!!! LOL

...gloss black engine; yup, mentioned in my earlier post.  I liked the color scheme until your daughter ruined it...she must have an insane sense of humor...pretty darn clever actually...'snot rod'  .. funny!!

[tazmun]

'd buy one of these bikes because they're what I like.  But since I have one that isn't missing anything of significance (sorry Jeff, I've ridden the new framed bike and it's nice, but not worth trading mine over) that's available on these bikes I'll pass.  Many of the people I've talked to feel the same way.  So if a bunch of the loyalists like me are happy and staying with what we've got, and the youngins are looking jap and german, then the MoCo will continue it's downward spiral.  Just my opinion and I hope like hell that I'm wrong.

I'm in total agreement... I wanted the new frame in 09, but I could not stand the extra heat! I wanted one in 2010,
but the heat and seat got to me again, after a 15 minute ride. I love the new Black CVO Road Glide, and I and afford
it, but same, same same. I want power reliability and WATERCOOLED! I will stick it out.

[Eqcons]

I'm with Nemo, I'm happy and sticking with what I got!  But I do like that GPS interfact, hope it will work with the 550!

We'll find out - I just ordered one.

Jim

[Robmay]

I have been readin the article on MotorcycleUSA.com. In the RG test ride they talk about the 110 being similar in power at 5000 ft elevation as a stock 96 is at sea level. They also mention the ABS brakes...... Ah hell, here, I'll just cut and paste. seems to contradict itself. I would imagine the RG and Ultra are the same as far as engine and ABS brakes. Am I missing something? 

Regarding the 110 ci

2011 CVO Road Glide Ultra
"Considering that our ride took place in and around Lake Tahoe, Nevada (elevation approximately 5000 feet) the Twin Cam 110 delivered a decent amount of pep under acceleration and climbed steep highway grades without the need to downshift to a lower gear. The added displacement generally negated the effects of operation at altitude and made performance feel essentially the same as a standard Twin Cam 96 engine operated at sea level."

2011 CVO Ultra Classic
"On the road the Twin Cam 110 V-Twin has adequate power to get you moving forward quickly. The added engine displacement was much appreciated during our ride through the Sierra Nevadas at upwards of a mile above sea level. Engine throttle response and the fuel injection settings are well calibrated with the engine running spot-on."

ABS Brakes

2011 CVO Road Glide Ultra
"Brake performance is adequate and for the most part the ABS is calibrated well although it does engage a bit early for my tastes which can compromise stopping distance in an emergency."

2011 CVO Ultra Classic
A good quality and easy to manipulate braking system complements the Electra Glide’s friendly handling manners. The brakes offer acceptable stopping power plus incorporate ABS so you never have to worry about locking up either tire in a panic stop or when riding in inclement weather or on slippery surfaces.

[Beary]

The young sportbike age folks are NOT the group that saved Harley in the 90's, why are they the source of a downward spiral now? If MOCO has a problem with the young folks, its the price not the style. And, I don't think the majority of Harley buyers wanted the bike for its its futuristic style and technology, they bought it because it looks like the same cool bike they saw on the road 15 years ago. How many Goldwing riders want the same style of a 10 year old Goldwing? A 10 year old Goldwing looks old and out of style. But a 10 year old Ultra looks like a 2010 Ultra. I don't think I'm far off saying that 90% of riders who buy Harleys wanted the Harley because they know it will look as cool ten years from now as it did 10 years ago. Go ask a Triumph dealer what style of bikes they are selling.

Now I admit that Harley is struggling at the moment, BUT who isn't? This is hardley the time or economy to assume that Harley is struggling from lack of enovation. I think Harley was the number one motorcycle manufacturer just 6 years ago and still in the top two or three now. Harley is doing fine without reinventing itself. Or that at least keeping their heads above water.

Beary

[mrmagloo]

I have been readin the article on MotorcycleUSA.com. In the RG test ride they talk about the 110 being similar in power at 5000 ft elevation as a stock 96 is at sea level. They also mention the ABS brakes...... Ah hell, here, I'll just cut and paste. seems to contradict itself. I would imagine the RG and Ultra are the same as far as engine and ABS brakes. Am I missing something? 

Regarding the 110 ci

2011 CVO Road Glide Ultra
"Considering that our ride took place in and around Lake Tahoe, Nevada (elevation approximately 5000 feet) the Twin Cam 110 delivered a decent amount of pep under acceleration and climbed steep highway grades without the need to downshift to a lower gear. The added displacement generally negated the effects of operation at altitude and made performance feel essentially the same as a standard Twin Cam 96 engine operated at sea level."

2011 CVO Ultra Classic
"On the road the Twin Cam 110 V-Twin has adequate power to get you moving forward quickly. The added engine displacement was much appreciated during our ride through the Sierra Nevadas at upwards of a mile above sea level. Engine throttle response and the fuel injection settings are well calibrated with the engine running spot-on."

ABS Brakes

2011 CVO Road Glide Ultra
"Brake performance is adequate and for the most part the ABS is calibrated well although it does engage a bit early for my tastes which can compromise stopping distance in an emergency."

2011 CVO Ultra Classic
A good quality and easy to manipulate braking system complements the Electra Glide’s friendly handling manners. The brakes offer acceptable stopping power plus incorporate ABS so you never have to worry about locking up either tire in a panic stop or when riding in inclement weather or on slippery surfaces.

I don't see anything contradictory. You will absolutely see a reduction in power with elevation, so that statement is true.  Regarding the inconsistency between the two reviews, I suspect two different reviewers/writers, and their individual perceptions. however, I don't see anything glaring, just two different opinions.

[grandpadoc]

...good spec sheet for the CVO Road Glide Ultra

                                                 http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2011-harley-davidson-cvo-road-glide-ultra-preview

[spydglide]

I don't see anything contradictory. You will absolutely see a reduction in power with elevation, so that statement is true.  Regarding the inconsistency between the two reviews, I suspect two different reviewers/writers, and their individual perceptions. however, I don't see anything glaring, just two different opinions.

Seem consistant to me also.  He did mention the ABS brakes coming in a bit early, for him anyway, and that wasn't mentioned in the other test.  All in all, in agreement.  spyder

[Robmay]

Yeah....I reackon. I got to back off this thing for a while.... I'm getting cross-eyed!  

[tazmun]

The young sportbike age folks are NOT the group that saved Harley in the 90's, why are they the source of a downward spiral now? If MOCO has a problem with the young folks, its the price not the style. And, I don't think the majority of Harley buyers wanted the bike for its its futuristic style and technology, they bought it because it looks like the same cool bike they saw on the road 15 years ago. How many Goldwing riders want the same style of a 10 year old Goldwing? A 10 year old Goldwing looks old and out of style. But a 10 year old Ultra looks like a 2010 Ultra. I don't think I'm far off saying that 90% of riders who buy Harleys wanted the Harley because they know it will look as cool ten years from now as it did 10 years ago. Go ask a Triumph dealer what style of bikes they are selling.

Now I admit that Harley is struggling at the moment, BUT who isn't? This is hardley the time or economy to assume that Harley is struggling from lack of enovation. I think Harley was the number one motorcycle manufacturer just 6 years ago and still in the top two or three now. Harley is doing fine without reinventing itself. Or that at least keeping their heads above water.

Beary

Beary,
 HD does not have to change the looks......... Just get into the 21st century with a more reliable power.
You can have the same touring bikes, but cool them down. You will get more power, and have a better
ride with a watercooling. Speaking of power, I have 100/100 rear wheel with my other touring bike.
It stays cool, uses regular gas, and is much more reliable then my HD. I will always have different bikes
until HD moves forward.
   By the way, just read an editorial this morning on how HD is demanding give backs from the union
in Milwaukee, but they still made $71 M the last quarter. It said in the paper they are off over 40%
from 2006. I'm thinking with all the demands, quality will not be going up anytime soon, either!

[spydglide]

Yeah....I reackon. I got to back off this thing for a while.... I'm getting cross-eyed!  

well, yeah, but I appreciated your comparative analysis of the frames, etc.   spyder

[Robmay]

Beary,
 HD does not have to change the looks......... Just get into the 21st century with a more reliable power.
You can have the same touring bikes, but cool them down. You will get more power, and have a better
ride with a watercooling. Speaking of power, I have 100/100 rear wheel with my other touring bike.
It stays cool, uses regular gas, and is much more reliable then my HD. I will always have different bikes
until HD moves forward.
   By the way, just read an editorial this morning on how HD is demanding give backs from the union
in Milwaukee, but they still made $71 M the last quarter. It said in the paper they are off over 40%
from 2006. I'm thinking with all the demands, quality will not be going up anytime soon, either!

With all due respect, I understand your point but your other bike isn't a Harley. A Harley is a Harley. If others want those things you mentioned then they should do as you did and buy something else (like a Goldwing or BMW). I had a Goldwing new in 2006 (and a Harley). I loved many things about it other than I couldn't get it to fit me personally as far as riding position goes (went so far as to buy a Corbin, floorboards, etc). Also, it just wasn't a Harley. Also, it wasn't any cooler riding it (with it being water cooled) here in Florida.

[sem_bunda]

With all due respect, I understand your point but your other bike isn't a Harley. A Harley is a Harley. If others want those things you mentioned then they should do as you did and buy something else (like a Goldwing or BMW). I had a Goldwing new in 2006 (and a Harley). I loved many things about it other than I couldn't get it to fit me personally as far as riding position goes (went so far as to buy a Corbin, floorboards, etc). Also, it just wasn't a Harley. Also, it wasn't any cooler riding it (with it being water cooled) here in Florida.

Robmay, I'm with you.  Harley is a Harley and no other bike is.  Some quality issues are better and some are worse than metrics or other bikes.  Top to bottom though, all things considered, there's no better American icon in business or bike on the road.  Some are cheaper, some are louder, some are faster, some are more comfortable.  But, like a friend who traded in his Goldwing for HD, "a Honda does what it is supposed to, like a refrigerator, but it doesn't move my soul."

And that 2011 CVO Streetglide in O/B makes me almost want to trade my 09 SERG. Almost.

[tazmun]

Robmay, I'm with you.  Harley is a Harley and no other bike is.  Some quality issues are better and some are worse than metrics or other bikes.  Top to bottom though, all things considered, there's no better American icon in business or bike on the road.  Some are cheaper, some are louder, some are faster, some are more comfortable.  But, like a friend who traded in his Goldwing for HD, "a Honda does what it is supposed to, like a refrigerator, but it doesn't move my soul."

And that 2011 CVO Streetglide in O/B makes me almost want to trade my 09 SERG. Almost.

You guys missed the whole jest of the statements........... Yes it move the soul, but if it roasts your peanuts off
at every stop sign, leaves you in the middle of Wyoming when something in the engine quits, that's where it needs to
be in the 21st century. Paint & chrome only goes so far! If your thinking about yourself (as most do) Harley will never
get the young people, they want something that they can just ride, and not worry about! Besides, they will have to
cool the beast sooner then you think. They can only go so far before uncle takes over!