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[hard10]

... and to protect the remaining jobs that haven't already fled overseas or to nonunion farming areas in the south...
Jerry

So this disagreement has now led to name calling? What area of Greenville, South Carolina where BMW is producing one of their top of the line cars is "farming"?

[skreminegul07]

Average age of retirement for 80% pay-65.
Average male life expectancy 70
Just sayin

Retirement is based on years of service.  Start at 24, retire at 54, 30 years service.  Life expectancy is higher than 70 I believe and who said it's just men we're talking about?  There is also spousal benefits, so it goes on and on. Also basing retirement on higher salary which includes overtime and some where if you were acting at a higher grade position (police/fire) you retired at the other guys level.  Towns have been giving employees the option to buy years of service to retire these higher paid guys, but you still pay them now for not working. We had a gut that retired from two police jobs at two different towns.  He worked full time at both and collected retirement twice.

[tjstreetglide]

H-D considering moving Milwaukee plant
Now we are into politics. I'm out

[semperfi81]

It's all about the unions, move the plants to Arizona it's a "right to work state"

[moscooter]

It's all about the unions, move the plants to Arizona it's a "right to work state"

 

[hogasm]

Check this out and then get back to me about......exec pay

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2008/11/let_gm_ford_and_chrysler_die.html


Detroit News, 17 Oct 2005, Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work

Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.

 

Yup,  That's what I want to pay for..........Union employees without work getting $31 an hour to play crossword puzzles. 

Took 3 guys who work for GM fishing the other day. 2 of them are engineers who have been demoted on their job description, they are now line foreman. The other engineer has been on  temporary layoff for the last 2 years. He only receives 80% of his salary if he stays home but if he goes into work and reads the paper or anything else to make 8 hours, he receives 100% of his salary.

[Ultra2010]

Set one tire out of the Country and they'll never get another penny from me!

[Joelgonia]

made some bad decisions, but moving out of the country would be death  -- Would anyone continue to support MoCo if they went Mexico, or far east?

[EZRIDN]

Sorry boys...I can't join in on the "it's all the union's fault" for the position that many of the manufactures are in.    It also amazes me that it is those that have never worked in a union shop are the first to blame unions for everything....so many qualified observations, I guess.   I'm not saying there isn't some abuse going on in select areas...but, you will find abuse of the system anywhere in the world...period. 

Do any of you union-bashers honestly think that the MOCO will lower prices of their products when they have relocated and use cheap non-union labor?  C'mon....you think because they kick the union out that they will automatically lower the prices of ANY of their merchandise?   Take your typical $35 MOCO t-shirt that is not union made...why does it command such a high price now when it's not sporting the union label?  Get real dudes....it's all about profit and maximizing share owner value and putting the screws to YOU the consumer any way they can to make an extra buck.       

If the MOCO does go off-shore/near-shore...then I will keep what I have...no new HD in the future for me, thank you. 

[moscooter]

 
""CAUTION!  I have an endless supply of stupid ideas... and THIS may be one of them!"

Well,  it's your "quote"...........not mine,  so I'm not gonna argue with it!

I agree that HD will not likely lower prices whether they move to a non-union area or not.   Their motivation right now is to re-balance the "supply/demand" ratio.........in other words,  they will be cutting back supply in hopes of maintaining and/or boosting price due to (hopefully) a demand that cannot be met by the (artificially lower) supply that they will dictate.

[Ultra2010]

Sorry boys...I can't join in on the "it's all the union's fault" for the position that many of the manufactures are in.    It also amazes me that it is those that have never worked in a union shop are the first to blame unions for everything....so many qualified observations, I guess.   I'm not saying there isn't some abuse going on in select areas...but, you will find abuse of the system anywhere in the world...period. 

Do any of you union-bashers honestly think that the MOCO will lower prices of their products when they have relocated and use cheap non-union labor?  C'mon....you think because they kick the union out that they will automatically lower the prices of ANY of their merchandise?   Take your typical $35 MOCO t-shirt that is not union made...why does it command such a high price now when it's not sporting the union label?  Get real dudes....it's all about profit and maximizing share owner value and putting the screws to YOU the consumer any way they can to make an extra buck.       

If the MOCO does go off-shore/near-shore...then I will keep what I have...no new HD in the future for me, thank you. 

+100%, & if we stop buying those $35 China shirts, the price will drop!!!

[hard10]

... I'm getting tired of the leaving town & local support for higher profits mentality of some corporations & pro sports teams. Need to spread the economy around even in less profitable areas. We lost the Pilots, Sonics, pretty soon all of Boeing & Weyerhauser, and some others.

If MoCo bails on Beertown where my beloved Seattle Pilots went(ironic isn't it?), I just might sell my bike & give up riden', because to me it is all about the ride experience as a whole, I feel that strong about it... HD has shown more & more lately they are losing their soul after the success of WG & employee shareholders taking over after the AMF disaster.. Screw 'em if they move...

Who exactly is it that is responsible for spreading "the economy around"? Any why is it that you think Boeing has chosen Charleston, South Carolina to build their new plane?

[moscooter]

 

Well,   my guess would be that just maybe.......like some of the foreign car companies,  South Carolina and other southern states offer companies the opportunity to build a plant and employ (non-union) workers that can do the required jobs just fine but without the unreasonable and (unsustainable costs) associated with union contracts and demands.

[CVOStreetglide]

I think that the "Mother Ship" is just negotiating with the Milwaukee politicians. They want incentives to stay. It's the new "corporate whore" trend in play. They did this a couple of years ago if you recall and came out with a fairly good package.

IF they do go somewhere don't forget that they are trying to make the company smaller since the production numbers are dropping.

So one of the finalists for manufacturing would include Kansas City because of the state-of-the-art plant already there.

Talladega would be on the build list as one of the members pointed out the last time. This is where they own a test track and the state would really like to have them there and are willing to pay for it.

I would think a more "holistic view" would be in order. A centralization of the drivetrain and all model assembly processes in a new facility with state-of-the-art robotics would improve assembly costs and reduce transportation cost significantly.

Milwaukee could be turned into the museum it really is. The corporate offices, Harley Museum, HOG and Willie "G"'s Design studio could stay. The rest should move. York is out because the plant is obsolete and the rebuild costs would be significant.

Like many here I am a stockholder long time buyer of many many new Harley's and a Life HOG member. So I try and follow the trends that many here recognize as well;

--A permanent drop in overall production
--Essentially NO new generation younger buyers entering the market--male or female.
--The older owners are leaving the hobby behind in growing numbers.
--A drop in the number of models offered and rightly so.
--A drastic reduction in dealers.
--A renewed effort to move to just-in-time manufacturing to keep inventory and cost low.
--Outsourcing of the HD new bike delivery fleet.

It's a changing world for Harley and all of us.  

 

[Joelgonia]

CVOStreetGlide -- I agree, just don't take it south of the border or overseas !!