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[Mr. Wizard]

Scenario..

2008 Road Glide. Running fine and all electronics working.

Motor rebuilt to a 117 and reinstalled.

Motor cranked and ran fine. All electronics working fine.

Starter map for the new build flashed. Bike started fine. During the first 10 miles the radio started to cut in and out, the speedo quit, bike runs fine for starter map. Pull over and shut the bike down. Wait 5 minutes and restart the bike. Radio works and so does the speedo. A ffew miles later the radio cuts in and out and the speedo stops working.

Checked all wiring and connections. Rechecked all grounds, no joy.

Replaced VSS, speedo still doesn't work. Put in a spare speedo, it shut down like the original.

Took it to HD. They say corrupted ECM. ECM has to be replaced. ECM still under warranty. Gave them the SEST to be unlocked so it will work with the new ECM. HD installed the ECM and flashed the bike. Rode the bike home, running like crap, 30 miles later the radio is cutting in and out and the speedo quits. Pulled over and shut bike down. Waited 5 minutes and started bike. Radio works and the speedo started working. Got the bike home and shut it down.

The only thing in common was using the same SEST. Although it was unlocked by HD we don't know if the SEST was checked for proper working order. There were no signs of issues or error codes during the first flash. HD flashed the new ECM with the same SEST. Is it possible the SEST is bad and damaging the ECM?

This is not my bike. Belongs to a friend of mine. Has anyone ever heard of this happening?


thanks

-wiz

[Twolanerider]

No idea what the problem might be.  But the focus on commonalities is too narrow.  Along with the SEST the entire rest of the bike is common to both failures.  It's too easy sometimes to focus on a best hunch (that may even be right) and dismiss other potential problems. 

[RedDevil]

Unless you have a broken/missing pin in the connectors on your SEST, it's probably not the problem.  The SEST is really nothing more than an interface between the ECM and the computer programs with a limited memory capability to allow you to record 15 mins of run time.  What base map did you load?  Are all wires to your EFI, O2 sensors, and ECM good?  There has been some mention on the forum here that some base maps have caused "hinky" things to happen with the electronics.  Like TwoLane said, it could be a multitude of things that could cause the problem.

 

[grc]

The SEST isn't something like a Power Commander or other add-on device that can go bad and screw up the way the bike operates.  It's basically computer software and a little interface that connects the computer to the ECM.  If there was anything in the interface that wasn't kosher, like a screwed up wire or bad embedded password, the download would not take place.  Unless someone is writing viruses for the SEST program, I doubt the computer the program is running on at the dealership is the problem either.

It is much more likely that an electrical problem with the bike is what caused the ECM failure.  It's time for the dealership to earn their money and do some real diagnostics, not just replace one failed part and assume all is good.  Obviously all is NOT good.


Jerry

[Mr. Wizard]

Unless you have a broken/missing pin in the connectors on your SEST, it's probably not the problem.  The SEST is really nothing more than an interface between the ECM and the computer programs with a limited memory capability to allow you to record 15 mins of run time.  What base map did you load?  Are all wires to your EFI, O2 sensors, and ECM good?  There has been some mention on the forum here that some base maps have caused "hinky" things to happen with the electronics.  Like TwoLane said, it could be a multitude of things that could cause the problem.

 

Thanks RD... base map isn't the problem, two different maps were used from two separate computer systems including HD's, no missing or broken pins on the cables at the SEST as three sets were used in programing at three locations. All the wires to the ECM and sensors are good. The bike wiring has been checked from head to toe before taking it to HD, all is good as well as all the connectors and grounds. This is why we are now focused on the SEST's ability to properly program.

[Twolanerider]

This is why we are now focused on the SEST's ability to properly program.

Unless the initial description was misunderstood it seemed the bike did run ok for a short period after the downloads were completed.  That would suggest that the downloads were in fact completed ok.  While it's understandable for the shop to hope the problem is somewhere besides where their hands worked everything (of what little) I know about the interface dongles also suggests it's likely not the culprit here.  Good luck on getting it sorted it out without too much time, pain and effort passing.  Be interested in hearing what you finally find the problem to be.

[Mr. Wizard]

The SEST isn't something like a Power Commander or other add-on device that can go bad and screw up the way the bike operates.  It's basically computer software and a little interface that connects the computer to the ECM.  If there was anything in the interface that wasn't kosher, like a screwed up wire or bad embedded password, the download would not take place.  Unless someone is writing viruses for the SEST program, I doubt the computer the program is running on at the dealership is the problem either.

It is much more likely that an electrical problem with the bike is what caused the ECM failure.  It's time for the dealership to earn their money and do some real diagnostics, not just replace one failed part and assume all is good.  Obviously all is NOT good.


Jerry

Thanks Jerry... this is why I am now asking for further help. We've already spoken with everyone we know and it seems the wiring is the first response we get. I understand the process of the SEST as an interface but if there is an issue with it's internal hardware could it cause an error in the ECM? I've seen the VCI code come up before due to not updating the firmware first but it tells you this and stops your programing.

We've had the tank and all covers back off, fairing included a few times. Searched each ground and connector, looked for pinched or rubbed wiring and broken connector pins by hand going behind each other. Just no luck finding the obvious. Heck, we even pulled the bar controls apart looking for a short there.

The warranty on this bike was out a few weeks ago but you are right... it's time to take this bike back and have them do a proper diagnosis and honor warranty on the electrical system. The owner of this bike said he was willing to take the SEST out of play and purchase a TTS just to see it the issue followed the process but if the ECM was in fact scrambled by an internal issue with the SEST then the dealership should swap out the SEST under warranty as well.

I don't know guys... big time stumped on this one...

[Mr. Wizard]

Unless the initial description was misunderstood it seemed the bike did run ok for a short period after the downloads were completed.  That would suggest that the downloads were in fact completed ok.  While it's understandable for the shop to hope the problem is somewhere besides where their hands worked everything (of what little) I know about the interface dongles also suggests it's likely not the culprit here.  Good luck on getting it sorted it out without too much time, pain and effort passing.  Be interested in hearing what you finally find the problem to be.

If I posted here everything we have done so far it would take you an hour just to read it... we feel like the three stooges falling over each other going back over the same thing again and again. We didn't have to strip the bike this much to do the 117 build.

We will get to the bottom of it... but this is a real brainteaser. It's got to be right under our noses in plain site or something no one would ever expected... think I will go check the back tire pressure!   

Won't leave you guys hanging... will post what we find. If anyone else has even the slightest suggestion it will be appreciated.

[Mr. Wizard]

Oh... missed something in my last reply... yes, the map was tweaked and flashed and VE's were set and the bike runs strong. After getting it back from HD (they flashed the same finished map) there's a dead spot at about 2500 in 2nd gear that the bike simply falls on it's face and has a decel pop now once out of that it smooths out and hauls pig. We haven't gotten to the timing yet.

The bike has almost 1200 miles on the build, just no speedo and has radio issues.



 

[hawgzilla]

Didn't this bike have trouble codes pointing to loss of serial data???  That is where the problem lies.  That would indicate broken serial buss wire or pin not seated in a connector.  Unfortunately this can be a tough one to find due to the fact that the serial buss wires are connected to virtually every component.  Concentrate on wire harness where there is movement (neck area) or where harness could get pinched (tank or seat area).  Also check component connectors for pins that may not be fully seated.  Good luck!!!!

[Hogflash]

Wiz,

Use your TTS interface and DataMaster and see if any historic codes are set.  Definitely sounds like a connection problem - bad ground, power or signal. 

You can also use the TTS or SEST to log data during startup and riding to see if there are intermittent signals or ignition voltage fluctuations.  This might help you determine what is causing the issue.   Very unlikely that the download is bad, you would get a check engine light with a P0605 checksum error - and no start.

--Gary

[Mr. Wizard]

We only get one code guys... and thanks for the replies. (How ya been Hawgflash?)

U1016 Loss of ICM/ECM Serial Data Instruments
U1016 Loss of ECM Serial Data, Vehicle Speed, Vehicle Inhibit Motion or Power train Security Status TSM/TSSM

We've cleared history but it comes back when our gremlin does.

This is what lead us to replace the VSS... was the first thing we did. No joy, Replace the speedo with a spare... nope. It is also what directed the HD to give him an new ECM.

We never got the dreaded P0605 

We did, however, had to open up the ECM connector to add the ACR wire. We haven't revisited the inside yet because the ARC's are working fine, but will. It's great that you guys are pounding on bad connection. Although we've been over the bike from stem to stern this seems to be everyone's advice. We're frustrated and this really helps.

Give me a few days and I'll open the ECM connector back up to see if there's a loose or touching connection. Won't take long.

[Twolanerider]

Those codes combined with the bikes behavior and the parts already replaced would make me chase something loose, broken or crimped also.  Since it's always a good idea to chase new problems first to the last things messed with I'd also go straight back in to that ECM connector.  Hope whatever it is you find it without much more pain man.  Good luck .