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[2010SSRS]

working on upgrade list and was told by my HD guy that not changing the stock 2011 CVO air cleaner setup would be like having a bandaid over ur mouth while u try to breath.

i understand the concept as well as the need for better intake breathing.........but are there any GOOD performing options other than the Heavy Breather?

really not a big fan of the Heavy Breather looks and i like the low profile stock look.

i see the Ness Sucker as well, but when using the stock cover, it appears i'd be undoing any positive breathing.....

keep in mind i'm really gonna work these heads over, go 590 on the cams, hi comp pistons and am leaning toward the V&H Dresser Duals (x-pipe looks not optional) w/ Hi Outputs then a tune......... 

[GregKhougaz]

Unfortunately, you need a new HD guy.  He's is either incompetent or just just plain dishonest.    Your SESG has the HD Ventilator a/c which is about as hight flow as it going to get.  Some have opted for the "Heavy Breather" which is similar to the "Big Sucker" but the difference is negligible.  I went to it on my SERG and (like I was warned) hit my left leg on it from time to time. 

 

If you look at your a/c, you'll see how "open" it is.  Then look at a regular Street Glide to see the difference.  Your "guy" is full of himself. 

[JCZ]

Come on Greg......the guy has to make a living.  Selling more parts to his customers is part of that job.


Greg's right......very, very few of us with the 09 SERG and the 10 SESG have changed our air cleaners.  I doubt it's even 5%.  It's already an open air cleaner (high flow) with lots of surface.

You might want to find another place (or at least another person to consult with) to take your bike.

[grc]

I'm guessing you are talking about an SESG (you should list your bike in your profile so we will know for sure), and if that's the case you already have the Ventilator air cleaner.  That is already a better flowing air cleaner than what comes on the CUSE or any of the non-CVO models.  Can you do better?  I'm sure you could, but what tradeoffs are you willing to deal with?  If you don't like the Heavy Breather, which is the best flowing style H-D offers, there is always one of the various "BIG" versions of the traditional round K&N filter on an open backplate, like the Ness Big Sucker or the Zipper's Max Flow.  The downside is they stick out quite a bit more than stock, and occupy the same area that many of us use for our right knee or thigh.  And you would need to come up with a custom cover for the filter, the stock Ventilator cover won't work.

What does your dealership guy recommend, and does he have any air flow data or dyno data for various air cleaners on bikes with your planned modifications?  Without data to support the sales pitch, I think I'd stick with what you have for now.  After your mods, IF the dyno guy can show you that your air cleaner is creating a significant loss of power then you might want to replace the Ventilator with something else.


Jerry

[Talon]

I went with the the Doherty Power Pacc, sticks out a little farther than stock, but it's a nice piece! I went open element using a Joker HD air cleaner insert and had the power pacc cover powder coated.


http://www.dohertymachine.com/

[Talon]

Here's a picture of the nice workmanship on the backing plate, with the velocity stack.

[sadunbar]

Unfortunately, you need a new HD guy.  He's is either incompetent or just just plain dishonest.    Your SESG has the HD Ventilator a/c which is about as hight flow as it going to get.  Some have opted for the "Heavy Breather" which is similar to the "Big Sucker" but the difference is negligible.  I went to it on my SERG and (like I was warned) hit my left leg on it from time to time. 

 

If you look at your a/c, you'll see how "open" it is.  Then look at a regular Street Glide to see the difference.  Your "guy" is full of himself. 

"Uninformed" might be another description of the HD guy - which makes him just like a lot of HD guy's.  These guys receive marginal product education, especially regarding the CVO bikes.

But that's what we are here for!!     No doubt we know our bikes and the CVO line in general better than most HD techs or parts guys.

[2010SSRS]

thanks for the input guys.........i can see the a/c difference between this CVO and my 07's oval.  glad i checked with y'all as i really am not crazy about the Heavy Breather appearance and the wife wanted to keep the "Ventilator".  and i'm trying to keep the $$$$ output as low as possible.

i'll have to call out my HD service guy......i understand wanting to sell parts, but don't lie to me.

thanks again!

hre's another question then.......the difference between the 50mm and 58mm throtle body worth the cost?  i'm hoping to get 120hp/tq doing heads, 590 cams, hi comp pistons, dresser dual headers and hi outputs with a tune.  can i get there without the throttle body?

[sadunbar]

thanks for the input guys.........i can see the a/c difference between this CVO and my 07's oval.  glad i checked with y'all as i really am not crazy about the Heavy Breather appearance and the wife wanted to keep the "Ventilator".  and i'm trying to keep the $$$$ output as low as possible.

i'll have to call out my HD service guy......i understand wanting to sell parts, but don't lie to me.

thanks again!

hre's another question then.......the difference between the 50mm and 58mm throtle body worth the cost?  i'm hoping to get 120hp/tq doing heads, 590 cams, hi comp pistons, dresser dual headers and hi outputs with a tune.  can i get there without the throttle body?

I don't think you will see 120/120 without improving the stock throttle body.  It's all about flow, and it starts with the air cleaner/throttle body and ends with the exhaust.  To see those numbers, you may want to consider a two into one exhaust also...  It sounds like you are going with Tman heads and cams.  You may want to ask Tman for his opinion regarding the rest of the components!  

[kraut]

maybe the sales person wanted to talk you into this:

27713-08 HIGH FLOW 58MM EFI THROTTLE BY
27796-08 HIGH FLOW INJECTOR KIT, 58MM
29515-08 KIT, SE STAGE 1 A/C 58MM

won't make much sense for you if you don't do the big package with heads, pistons, cams pp. But if you want to go that way anyway yes, according to the book throttle body and corresponding A/C are recommended.

But as communications between you and your dealers doesn't seem to be at it's best I second the advice to go the other way round: find yourself a tuner whom you can trust, tell him what's your target (and price tag!) and then let him put together the parts list.

[2010SSRS]

so my stock CVO Ventilator won't work with the 58mm throttle body then, correct?  but i could go with the SE setup and utilize the stock CVO cover...........i'm hoping! 

[StreetDog]

I don't think you will see 120/120 without improving the stock throttle body.  It's all about flow, and it starts with the air cleaner/throttle body and ends with the exhaust.  To see those numbers, you may want to consider a two into one exhaust also...  It sounds like you are going with Tman heads and cams.  You may want to ask Tman for his opinion regarding the rest of the components!  

T-Man knows his stuff, great heads and cams. He recomends going with HorsePower Inc. last time I talk to me. But I don't think that have finished their fly-by-wire throttlebody yet. They are working on a replacement for the newer bikes last time I checked. I'm sure that would be the way to go, they flow much better than anything HD has.

[Old Harley Dude]

Unfortunately, you need a new HD guy.  He's is either incompetent or just just plain dishonest.    Your SESG has the HD Ventilator a/c which is about as hight flow as it going to get.  Some have opted for the "Heavy Breather" which is similar to the "Big Sucker" but the difference is negligible.  I went to it on my SERG and (like I was warned) hit my left leg on it from time to time. 

 

If you look at your a/c, you'll see how "open" it is.  Then look at a regular Street Glide to see the difference.  Your "guy" is full of himself. 

I'm trying to visualize how you might be hitting your LEFT leg on the Heavy Breather. Some people do ride facing backwards I guess. Just wondering. 

[grc]

so my stock CVO Ventilator won't work with the 58mm throttle body then, correct?  but i could go with the SE setup and utilize the stock CVO cover...........i'm hoping! 

If you look closely at the 58mm SE throttle body, you will notice that the mounting holes for the air cleaner are located differently than the stock part, so the backing plate of the Ventilator or the other SE air cleaners won't match up.  Thus the requirement for a special air cleaner.  Another good reason in my opinion to look at other throttle body options from the aftermarket, so you won't be limited in your choice of air cleaner.

As for the air cleaner cover, can't really say if you would be able to make it fit on the end of that round filter.  It has the proper center hole, but you would need to test fit it to the end of the filter to see if it would be supported properly.  Even if it fits, it may look rather strange. 


Jerry

[sadunbar]

If you look closely at the 58mm SE throttle body, you will notice that the mounting holes for the air cleaner are located differently than the stock part, so the backing plate of the Ventilator or the other SE air cleaners won't match up.  Thus the requirement for a special air cleaner.  Another good reason in my opinion to look at other throttle body options from the aftermarket, so you won't be limited in your choice of air cleaner.

As for the air cleaner cover, can't really say if you would be able to make it fit on the end of that round filter.  It has the proper center hole, but you would need to test fit it to the end of the filter to see if it would be supported properly.  Even if it fits, it may look rather strange.  


Jerry

Or you can send your stock 50mm throttle body to HPI (and retain your stock air cleaner) and for $400, they will modify it as described below:

Horsepower Inc. FBW Throttle Body
2008-Present

Through a core exchange program, we modify the existing stock units to meet your specific needs.  The stock 50mm FBW  throttle body is bored to a 54mm and attached is a custom intake manifold specific to your build requirements.  The stock 58mm FBW throttle body is turned into a large plenum throttle body through a 62mm intake attachment, once again specific to your build requirements.  

Available intake port port diameters are 1.660, 1.710, and 1.800.  Extended deck lengths are raised .032, .060, and a file to fit option.  Through these modifications, HPI is able to offer our customers a FBW throttle body solution that is affordable and unmatched in quality.

Part Number Intake Runner Price
HPI-FBWR-16 1.660 $400
HPI-FBWR-17 1.710 $400
HPI-FBWR-18 1.800 $400

The ultimate, of course, is to buy a complete aftermarket throttle body and air cleaner from HPI, and have your heads ported to match the intake port diameter.

It all depends on how much power you are looking for and how much money you want to spend.