Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[guppytrash]

That is unexpected Ernie.  In a good way of course.  But a lot more than one would have expected or even hoped for anymore.  

It's not as if we don't spend a fair amount of coin with these companies.  It's not just refreshing it's also reassuring to hear of cases where the companies actually give a damn in return.

X100
Customer support with this stuff is absolutely the highest priority for me.  Make a good product and then stand behind it!  Seems simple and yet it is so hard to find.
If this EMS is reliable and works as advertised it will be a home run.

[erniezap]

Had the bike out yesterday and cold/warm starting is a lot easier and the bike is just a lot more fun to ride due to smoothness and throttle response.

[hd-dude]

Jenni is having trouble finding a Drag part number based on description.... Anyone out there happen to have the Drag # ?  I shoot an email off to vender and will post same if I hear back..

Here they Are....

1020-1366 New EMS PRECISION 04-05 SFTL
1020-1367 New EMS PRECISION 06-10 SFTL 
1020-1368 New EMS PRECISION 04-05 DYNA 
1020-1369 New EMS PRECISION 06-10 DYNA   
1020-1370 New EMS PRECISION 04-06 FLH 
1020-1371 New EMS PRECISION 2007 FLH 
1020-1372 New EMS PRECISION 2008 FLH 
1020-1373 New EMS PRECISION 2009 FLH 
1020-1374 New EMS PRECISION 2010 FLH 

[Steve Cole]

I do not know anything about this new kit and how it works on each bike but I can straighten out a few things about the ECM. The area that is programmed by this kit only contains the calibration area, the operating system software is not changed. The stock ECM will correct about 20% and this kit list the same thing so I would assume that it is just using the stock code for corrections. There is no selection within the ECM to just switch Torque Management on or off, sorry but it does not work that way. As for the Broad Band conversion this was done years ago in the automotive side but is no longer being used by most. If you look at an LM1 from Innovate Motorsports it does the same thing. What these boxes do is to take a Broad Band sensor and convert it's output to be the same as a narrowband sensor. To tell if this kit is doing the same thing one just needs to look at the data coming off ECM and see if it still shows a switching signal.

[cvobiker]

Here they Are....

1020-1366 New EMS PRECISION 04-05 SFTL
1020-1367 New EMS PRECISION 06-10 SFTL 
1020-1368 New EMS PRECISION 04-05 DYNA 
1020-1369 New EMS PRECISION 06-10 DYNA   
1020-1370 New EMS PRECISION 04-06 FLH 
1020-1371 New EMS PRECISION 2007 FLH 
1020-1372 New EMS PRECISION 2008 FLH 
1020-1373 New EMS PRECISION 2009 FLH 
1020-1374 New EMS PRECISION 2010 FLH 

Yup just got it from Revolution, BTW they intend to address Steve Cole's claims..

[Heatwave]

I do not know anything about this new kit and how it works on each bike but I can straighten out a few things about the ECM. The area that is programmed by this kit only contains the calibration area, the operating system software is not changed. The stock ECM will correct about 20% and this kit list the same thing so I would assume that it is just using the stock code for corrections. There is no selection within the ECM to just switch Torque Management on or off, sorry but it does not work that way. As for the Broad Band conversion this was done years ago in the automotive side but is no longer being used by most. If you look at an LM1 from Innovate Motorsports it does the same thing. What these boxes do is to take a Broad Band sensor and convert it's output to be the same as a narrowband sensor. To tell if this kit is doing the same thing one just needs to look at the data coming off ECM and see if it still shows a switching signal.

Can you provide any thinking on what exactly this system "might" be doing with respect to Torque Management? I found it interesting that this system is "addressing" torque management while all other tuning options do not, at least as displayed on their comparison chart.

What exactly could be addressed in this system related to TM that all the other tuning systems are not addressing?

[Twolanerider]

Can you provide any thinking on what exactly this system "might" be doing with respect to Torque Management? I found it interesting that this system is "addressing" torque management while all other tuning options do not, at least as displayed on their comparison chart.

What exactly could be addressed in this system related to TM that all the other tuning systems are not addressing?

I've always been very interested in Steve's insights on the TTS product, his willingness to discuss and share how it works and his ability to contrast it to the prior SERT product.  His company built them all after all.  So no one better to speak to what they'll do and how to do things with them.  On top of all that he's also personally been nothing but helpful and courteous to the users here who have asked questions or needed support.

In this case, however, I think we'd be better served to call technical support at Revolution Performance to ask questions about their product.  Even more so when Steve has readily admitted the EMS package is not a product he is familiar with.  

Steve has been courteous in the past sharing information on his package.  And he's rightfully questioned those not familiar with his package when they spoke of it without knowing all they should know of it before speaking.  Getting information straight from Rev Performance (or perhaps Jim as one of the product's users and vendors) would seem better for both us and the vendors than would questioning a competitor who's admittedly never had hands on the product.

[guppytrash]

I've always been very interested in Steve's insights on the TTS product, his willingness to discuss and share how it works and his ability to contrast it to the prior SERT product.  His company built them all after all.  So no one better to speak to what they'll do and how to do things with them.  On top of all that he's also personally been nothing but helpful and courteous to the users here who have asked questions or needed support.

In this case, however, I think we'd be better served to call technical support at Revolution Performance to ask questions about their product.  Even more so when Steve has readily admitted the EMS package is not a product he is familiar with.  

Steve has been courteous in the past sharing information on his package.  And he's rightfully questioned those not familiar with his package when they spoke of it without knowing all they should know of it before speaking.  Getting information straight from Rev Performance (or perhaps Jim as one of the product's users and vendors) would seem better for both us and the vendors than would questioning a competitor who's admittedly never had hands on the product.

Well said!  No disrespect to Steve.  
Henry Ford would not be the guy to ask about a Chevrolet or a Chrysler.  

[Heatwave]

I've always been very interested in Steve's insights on the TTS product, his willingness to discuss and share how it works and his ability to contrast it to the prior SERT product.  His company built them all after all.  So no one better to speak to what they'll do and how to do things with them.  On top of all that he's also personally been nothing but helpful and courteous to the users here who have asked questions or needed support.

In this case, however, I think we'd be better served to call technical support at Revolution Performance to ask questions about their product.  Even more so when Steve has readily admitted the EMS package is not a product he is familiar with. 

Steve has been courteous in the past sharing information on his package.  And he's rightfully questioned those not familiar with his package when they spoke of it without knowing all they should know of it before speaking.  Getting information straight from Rev Performance (or perhaps Jim as one of the product's users and vendors) would seem better for both us and the vendors than would questioning a competitor who's admittedly never had hands on the product.

Agreed however Steve is the resident expert on how TM is managed on our bikes. Perhaps someone from RevTech could be encouraged to follow-up and post information regarding their product on this forum. In the absence of their direct participation in this thread, wouldn't all the information be suspect. I see no reason why others shouldn't respond to technical questions about this product (in their absence) otherwise what exactly is the point of the thread since there's no one from the company directly posting?

[HD Street Performance]

I thought TM was a big hitter. I found out otherwise from others, in a question on another board that could have been answered in a few simple sentences, such as: "it does not effect power output on the dyno runs that take only ~6sec."

Why are the FBW bikes for the most part done by 5,500 rpm? I see the trend that's all and wonder why? There may be a rogue high flier here and there but this seems to be the norm.

There is value in a tuner that is truely plug and play. We will see.

[Heatwave]

I thought TM was a big hitter. I found out otherwise from others, in a question on another board that could have been answered in a few simple sentences, such as: "it does not effect power output on the dyno runs that take only ~6sec."

Why are the FBW bikes for the most part done by 5,500 rpm? I see the trend that's all and wonder why? There may be a rogue high flier here and there but this seems to be the norm.

There is value in a tuner that is truely plug and play. We will see.

There must be some benefit to actively managing TM, otherwise why is RevTech pointing it out as a feature they offer that no other tuning approach provides?

[revperf]

First of all thanks for the interest in our product. I wanted to take time to answer a few questions that I thought were deserved a fair answer.

1.   The EMS (your ECU) looks to an H-D dealership just like a TTS or SERT from a functional and/or diagnostic perspective.  It just has a different Cal ID.  Digital Techs or other scan tool devices communicate in standard fashion.  DTC codes are all the same and the standard trouble shooting diagrams from H-D can be followed.

2.   Torque management is a loaded question…  There are several systems in play especially in DBW vehicles.  Steve Cole is absolutely right that you can not just flip a switch and turn it off.  There are multiple parameters that must be modified in order to effectively disable different aspects of the system.   We disable all necessary parameters in the proper fashion.  Steve has been under a great deal of undue pressure lately about the TM.  TM is not going to be an issue whatsoever with regards to a dyno run whether you are using our system or a TTS.  That's not how it works.  Steve has a great product and lots and lots of satisfied customers.  This should in no way turn into a back and forth on the two different products. 

3.   We do not use a broad band conversion to imitate a switching style sensor signal.  This has been done for years by others, and has some definite disadvantages as far as response control speed is concerned.  We prefer to control with the data from the wide band O2 sensors directly, and our modifications allow this to happen seamlessly



Thanks to everyone who has responded and we will keep watching, and answer as appropriate.

[Steve Cole]

Can you provide any thinking on what exactly this system "might" be doing with respect to Torque Management? I found it interesting that this system is "addressing" torque management while all other tuning options do not, at least as displayed on their comparison chart.

What exactly could be addressed in this system related to TM that all the other tuning systems are not addressing?

I did not want to get into the middle of what it may or maynot be doing but there are a few things being stated that are incorrect, so I stepped in on those things only. I provided you a way to test to see what was going on with the O2 system and left it at that. For the record TTS has been the first and only device to  address Torque Management and it has been done in our product since day one, so it's not new, so the claim that REV is the only one is way off base and I think that is fair to point out. What this reprogramed ECM is doing with the system and not doing with the system I am not going to get into as I do not feel it's right.

[Heatwave]

First of all thanks for the interest in our product. I wanted to take time to answer a few questions that I thought were deserved a fair answer.

1.   The EMS (your ECU) looks to an H-D dealership just like a TTS or SERT from a functional and/or diagnostic perspective.  It just has a different Cal ID.  Digital Techs or other scan tool devices communicate in standard fashion.  DTC codes are all the same and the standard trouble shooting diagrams from H-D can be followed.

2.   Torque management is a loaded question…  There are several systems in play especially in DBW vehicles.  Steve Cole is absolutely right that you can not just flip a switch and turn it off.  There are multiple parameters that must be modified in order to effectively disable different aspects of the system.   We disable all necessary parameters in the proper fashion.  Steve has been under a great deal of undue pressure lately about the TM.  TM is not going to be an issue whatsoever with regards to a dyno run whether you are using our system or a TTS.  That's not how it works.  

3.   We do not use a broad band conversion to imitate a switching style sensor signal.  This has been done for years by others, and has some definite disadvantages as far as response control speed is concerned.  We prefer to control with the data from the wide band O2 sensors directly, and our modifications allow this to happen seamlessly



Thanks to everyone who has responded and we will keep watching, and answer as appropriate.

I still didn't read anything that would clarify exactly what your TM feature is doing that is not addressed by other alternative HD tuning approaches. I don't mean this to be a loaded question. I'm just trying to understand what it does since it's one of the features REVTECH has promoted that is exclusive to your tuning approach that others don't offer. Any elaboration would be appreciated, even if the reality is that it doesn't provide any benefit at all vs other tuning approaches.

[guppytrash]

GEEEZZZ
 Heatwave
You are like one of Michael Vicks dog's going after a raw steak.  
I just reread all your posts on this so far.  Your arm must be tired...that's a whole lot of grenades you have been throwing.
Is there a reason why you are putting a bullseye on this target?

Do you tune bikes for living?  Why so threatened?  

This could be the biggest flop or the greatest thing since EFI....I dunno

One last thing...I think its Rev Performance...not REVTECH