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[laylonlor]

"fbw" bike whats that

[grc]

"fbw" bike whats that

Fly-By-Wire.   The proper term for a Harley would be ETC (Electronic Throttle Control), but many variations in terminology exist.


Jerry

[laylonlor]

can ya convert the fbw bikes ,back to cable easily,

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Hey Scott, was that 100/120 uncorrected and with no conditions?  What were the numbers in SAE / STD?

He may have that info on his site.
Scott

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Yep I like the 8 too.
I still fail to see FBW bikes do much over 5,500 when the same motor in the pre-06 bikes would pull them out to 6,200+ as they should. No change in hardware other than the 5 speed box and a cable TB (two piece). Why is this? Or are you saying Joe gets them to pull higher by tuning properly? I know the hardware can go there whether it is yours or mine. I also know the FBW TB , manifold specifically, is very restrictive and HPInc has addressed that finally.

Not saying he is able to spool them off higher and make more doing so, as I do not know that.
I'll look next time he faxes a report over to us.
HPI did do a VERY good job of correcting that intake manifold issue.
Scott

[Unbalanced]

Scott,

It is truly sad that the numbers aren't validatable with conditions which would only solidify them as genuine and unreputable.   While it is just a tool, it also sells a lot of work as advertisement and until the numbers are backed up with solid data imo its just inflated numbers that won't be had on another dynojet.

[HUBBARD]

Scott,

It is truly sad that the numbers aren't validatable with conditions which would only solidify them as genuine and unreputable.   While it is just a tool, it also sells a lot of work as advertisement and until the numbers are backed up with solid data imo its just inflated numbers that won't be had on another dynojet.

Here, Here!  I concur.   Later--HUBBARD

[timtoolman]

dont the pre -06 bikes run higher numbers because of the trans/gear differences?  or am i off track

[grc]

dont the pre -06 bikes run higher numbers because of the trans/gear differences?  or am i off track

Depends on several factors.  If all runs were made in top gear then what you mentioned might be true, but most dyno runs on Harleys that I've seen have been run in anything from 4th to 5th gear regardless of older or newer model.  The torque multiplying effects of the lower gear ratios can affect the readings positively, while the higher tire speeds and rolling resistance from using top gear will affect the readings negatively.  I wouldn't bother trying to make comparisons unless the bikes were run on the same dyno under the same conditions by the same operator, and even then there are opportunities for an unscrupulous operator to affect the numbers. 

Look at the Dynojet style of dynomometer as a diagnostic and tuning tool, and not a source of incontrovertible data to prove one bike or one persons mods are better than another.  You will be better served that way, and less likely to be lead down the garden path.


Jerry

[Vosselman (NL - Europe)]

Another 'problem' with dyno's and acceleration runs is due to the rear wheel inertia.
Best would be to do a steptest on a dyno with a calibrated loadarm.

The rear wheel inertia differs big time from bike to bike.
Look at the rear wheel on a Jap bike or the 130mm on older HD's and the new 180mm tires or even bigger on the V rods.
The lighter the wheel, the easier it is to accelerate the wheel, the more power is put onto the drum of the dyno, the higher the power reading.
The opposite for a heavy wheel: more engine power is needed to accelerate the wheel, less power is put onto the drum of the dyno.

To be correct, you need to know the rear wheel inertia for every bike. Or use some kind of a way to measure it on the dyno.
The heavier the drum on the dyno, the lower the effect of the rearwheel.

During a steptest, the rearwheel is not accelerating during a step. It runs at the same rpm. So all power is put into the drum.
The calibrated load cell measures the torque/power.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Scott,

It is truly sad that the numbers aren't validatable with conditions which would only solidify them as genuine and unreputable.   While it is just a tool, it also sells a lot of work as advertisement and until the numbers are backed up with solid data imo its just inflated numbers that won't be had on another dynojet.

You may want to discuss his methodology with him,(his phone number is 518-664-7254) but quite contrary to popular belief, as to other dynos replicating his results, that has been proven, on many occasions.
We are very close to Joe, and I for one, do not know, how much work he does at his place of business, and do not, for the life of me, know how that you are privy to that proprietary information.
Scott

[Unbalanced]

You may want to discuss his methodology with him,(his phone number is 518-664-7254) but quite contrary to popular belief, as to other dynos replicating his results, that has been proven, on many occasions.
We are very close to Joe, and I for one, do not know, how much work he does at his place of business, and do not, for the life of me, know how that you are privy to that proprietary information.
Scott

Scott,

Please clarify for me what you are trying to say, because your comments make no sense?  Do you mean how happy his dyno numbers are and how I am privy to this well that is easy one?  As this has been well discusssed on numberous forums?   

[HUBBARD]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, Guys,

While I don't profess to be as knowledgable in the intracacies of dyno-tuning as Unbalanced, or Scott, I find it lacking as far as being an exact science.  There are more variables than actuals.  Different barometric pressures, temperatures, elevations, etc., all are factors.  Example:  Ol' Maudie will produce one set of Dyno numbers in Charleston, WV, and another set in Statesville, NC, at 3000' less Elevation.  To me, dyno sheets are no more than bragging rights, (to the Owner), if they reflect numbers that support bragging, and a "guide", to the Tuner.  Again, that's my view.  I don't want to invoke a riot, or battle of the minds.  I've seen dyno sheets reflect 135 HP, 150 ft. lbs., 150 HP, 140 ft. lbs., and Ol' Maudie go by them like they were sittin' up on jack-stands.  I've also seen some that produced lower numbers, that were very competitive.  So..........who's right, or who's wrong?  Dyno guys have got to make a living, too.  What matters is, how much AIR can we force into our Motors, and how FAST can we force it out the exhaust?  That's my "Creek Boy", evaluation.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD         

[Unbalanced]

Hubbard all that you said is pretty much on target,  except that without the conditions you can't validate the numbers and anyone that has done even a little research on this topic knows that this is one of the happiest dynos around and its the poor folks that don't know any better that get sucked in because it is also used as a tool to sell services.  Don't take my word for it, do a little digging and you will attain the knowledge you need to make the decision for yourself as it has been debated on many sites.      Hell if it is just for the numbers then post all 3 of them uncorrected, SAE, and STD with the conditions then no one has room to complain provided the conditions are in line with the area / temp etc.   
 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Scott,

Please clarify for me what you are trying to say, because your comments make no sense?  Do you mean how happy his dyno numbers are and how I am privy to this well that is easy one?  As this has been well discusssed on numberous forums?   

We'll I guess that sums it up, I, do not make any sense, and you, "heard" it on the internet, so it must be true.
Got it, now.