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[Keats]

LOL   



How about "Expert of the Chitheads"

[Spiderman]

I read the article expecting to find something contained in it that might cause me to have an opinion. With the exception of "loose bolts" I saw nothing to indicate how this accident ocurred. "The Wobble" you folks speak of I have noticed has been dicussed in detail on this forum over the years. Everyone has an opinion of what causes it. But I don't ever see anyone giving a detailed description of the condition of their motorcycle at the time it occurs. Are the tires inflated properly ? Are they worn ? Are they balanced correctly ? Are the shocks adjusted correctly for the load ? Was there a rough spot in the road when the wobble began ? And so on and so on and so on to the point of basically the whole debate has so many variables, one wonders if Einstein himself could create an algorythm that would cover them all. It's sad this guy is paralyzed. It's sad people die sometimes. Life is sad as well as joyous and rewarding and a lot of things. Here's what I think. Riding a motorcycle is inherently a dangerous activity just as is snow skiing, snowmobiling, ATVing, water skiing and a host of other activties. Why does somebody always have to be to blame ? How about "chit Happens" Sure that sucks when you're looking to how you're going to support yourself after an accident of this nature, but isn't that really why that expression became so popular ? chit Happens - - every minute of every day somewhere, something happens to somebody that sucks but it doesn't mean somebody else should have to pay for it.

[dejavo]

Add me to the list of those who had a straight line wobble (THE HARLEY DANCE) . Several years ago on a 2001 ultra. Straight line on an interstate. I took it up to see what kind of speed it would do and at about 103 mph it started to dance. My a$$ puckers still thinking about it . I got off the gas totally and hung on for dear life. The dance did not stop until I was under 65 mph. Never took that bike over 90 again.

[SBB]

Add me to the list of those who had a straight line wobble (THE HARLEY DANCE) . Several years ago on a 2001 ultra. Straight line on an interstate. I took it up to see what kind of speed it would do and at about 103 mph it started to dance. My a$$ puckers still thinking about it . I got off the gas totally and hung on for dear life. The dance did not stop until I was under 65 mph. Never took that bike over 90 again.

 

SBB

[grc]

I never realized there was so many bikes
with that issue!!!  Again there was
never anything bad against  this guy.

why aren't people wining lawsuits???
I may go down and watch the trial and the other
two the lawyer is putting on

scott

What makes you think people aren't winning these suits?  Harley tends to settle suits that they think they might lose, and part of the settlement is a nondisclosure agreement.  In other words, they hand over a pile of money and the plaintiff agrees to dismiss the suit and never disclose the settlement details.  Makes it tough for the next guy to show a trend or precedent.

The biggest problem with winning these suits outright is that it comes down to one sides "experts" versus the other sides "experts", and neither one can prove beyond a doubt that the crash in question was or was not caused by a particular defect in the bike.  So even though a huge number of people who have ridden these bikes know they can be very unstable, there is no one obvious defect that has been proved to be the cause of the problems.  There are many contributing factors, and what might "fix" one bike won't necessarily "fix" a different bike with the same or similar wobble.  There is also a certain amount of rider influence, with some people able to ride through an incident while others crash.  That's not much different than how some folks with a Firestone blowout on their Explorer wound up rolling the vehicle while others just eased off the road and changed the flat.

The wobble phenomenon isn't unique to Harley, people with various brands have experienced high speed wobbles throughout the history of motorcycles.  The part I find disturbing about Harley is how it took them 30 years to finally make changes to the frame to improve the stability of their Touring models.  Regardless of what they say in public or in various courtrooms, they have known for most of those 30 years that their bikes were less stable than many other brands but they didn't step up and spend a few bucks to figure out and fix the issues.  Just like we've seen with many other companies in various industries, it seems they believed it's easier and less expensive to just settle lawsuits than it is to actually fix the problem once and for all.  Real peoples lives don't enter into the corporate decision making process, only $$$$.


Jerry

[jayray00SERG]

Bike had 900 miles. Must have trailered to AZ from Chicago. Death wobble occurs over 80 mph. Exceeding speed limit to "lead" the group to a gas stop contributed, if not,  caused this accident.  I feel for any rider who goes down. Experience slows you down. Speed Kills.

[kraut]

@Jerry:

if I recall correctly Harley did several modifications to adress the "wobble" - first they eliminated the air-shocks for the fork, 2002 and 2005 they modified the frame - and the owners manual since at least 2005 states in the German version that riding the bike above 135 km/h (i.e. 85 mph) may be unsafe.

I can't remember the "wobble" beeing frequent with evos and earlier bikes, I have the impression it was the twincam that made the "wobble" popular - but I may be wrong in this. However it seems a specialty of the touring models finally cured with the new frame - at least I hope so. I still don't feel really comfortable over 100 mph ...

[Robmay]

So,

I will proclaim you as the expert and surrender the title you appointed me.

You have proved to me, my observations are meaningless and not valid.

In case you haven't noticed, he does that often around here. That's why he's affectionately referred to as Chithead!   

[Grizzly]

I read the article expecting to find something contained in it that might cause me to have an opinion. With the exception of "loose bolts" I saw nothing to indicate how this accident ocurred. "The Wobble" you folks speak of I have noticed has been dicussed in detail on this forum over the years. Everyone has an opinion of what causes it. But I don't ever see anyone giving a detailed description of the condition of their motorcycle at the time it occurs. Are the tires inflated properly ? Are they worn ? Are they balanced correctly ? Are the shocks adjusted correctly for the load ? Was there a rough spot in the road when the wobble began ? And so on and so on and so on to the point of basically the whole debate has so many variables, one wonders if Einstein himself could create an algorythm that would cover them all. It's sad this guy is paralyzed. It's sad people die sometimes. Life is sad as well as joyous and rewarding and a lot of things. Here's what I think. Riding a motorcycle is inherently a dangerous activity just as is snow skiing, snowmobiling, ATVing, water skiing and a host of other activties. Why does somebody always have to be to blame ? How about "chit Happens" Sure that sucks when you're looking to how you're going to support yourself after an accident of this nature, but isn't that really why that expression became so popular ? chit Happens - - every minute of every day somewhere, something happens to somebody that sucks but it doesn't mean somebody else should have to pay for it.

Very well said.   

[Beak Boater]

Did anyone experience this problem at highway speeds, where I live thats 55-60 mph, occasionally 70 mph.? After reading the posts whether its straight or turning, high speeds seem to be the common trait. Has anyone experienced this riding two up?
Ride a 2010 SEUC an love the bike, I just dont ride fast. I know this was mostly occuring on the older frame style bikes, just wondering if the new frame has the same habits.

[DESERTBEAR54]

BLUU cruises beautifully at 85 mph with two up. It has allot to do with correct tire pressures and loading of the bike. I also enjoy the new frame and larger rear tire that is incorporated on the 2010 SEUC. On my 08 SEUC I experenced the wobble at about 105 but I will never need to go that speed again on my Ultra. It is never about speed on the highways Its about slowing down and enjoying the Beauty!!

[HUBBARD]

Does he have to surrender his current "Chithead" title, or does he get to have two titles - "Chithead" and "Expert"...  Just trying to clarify...   

sadunbar,

I propose the Chipster be promoted to the Sites "Expert Chithead", position.  Second?  Later--HUBBARD 

[sadunbar]

sadunbar,

I propose the Chipster be promoted to the Sites "Expert Chithead", position.  Second?  Later--HUBBARD 

Second.....      

[HUBBARD]

I definitely ain't no expert, but there are some things I know to be a natural fact.  Tire pressure 40 rear, 38 front.  One up or 2-up, makes no difference.  Left foot on Highway Peg, Right foot on floorboard, from start to WFO, for however many miles, NO WOBBLE!  Disagree or laugh if you want, but it is the truth.  Starting with New Rear Tire, up to about 4000 miles, when the high speed flat spots start showing on the rear tire.  Then, a slight, slight wobble in a right hand, sweeping turn, on the Interstate at around 90-100 MPH.  Put new rear tire on, Dunlop 140, back to perfect.  Later--HUBBARD

[SBB]

I know this was mostly occuring on the older frame style bikes, just wondering if the new frame has the same habits.

To answer your question,
IMHO I don't think the old frame habits have transferred to the new frames.
There are so many other variable's that can affect stability other than just the frame.
Tires (front and rear), tire pressure, shocks, front end, steering neck, motor mounts, swing arm bushings and the list goes on.
On my 09 SEUC the tires are good, I check pressure weekly, the rear shocks are the Aldan/Arnott, the front end has Progressive Monotubes, the steering neck is tightened to spec with plenty of grease, I check motor mounts at every oil change and I haven't a clue as to the condition of the swingarm bushings.
At any speed above triple digits the bike is stable.
But let's not forget road conditions.
Those can hurt you even with the best prepared bike!

SBB