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[Spiderman]

So what's the answer people ?  We all know there has to be one. It might not be popular, certainly would be painful but I am sure there is an answer.

The answer is as simple as what a few of us have been discussing amoungst ourselves ona personal level. Stop spending more than we earn, pay what we owe and only buy what we can afford. Pretty simple. On a national level that involves saying NO to a lot of people who have not heard that word much if ever in their lives. One of you more well versed than me in economics can flesh this out if you choose, but the path we need to follow is simple and obvious. What doesn't seem to be out there is anyone with the will to lead us down that path.

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[hogasm]

For me it has gotten worst. As a commerical plumbing and site utilities contractor I am seeing fewer and fewer jobs out for bid. Almost all involve some government money. City buildings, schools and churches. My biggest issue is a lot of people are taking these jobs at or below cost. They are trying to keep their crews working. I won't stay in business long if I give in to these ideologies, pockets too shallow right now. Just trying to ride it out, but it's looking like a long ride.

Have you paid attention to the wording on their contracts. Just because it is in the specs doesn;t mean that they include it in their contracts. The contract is awarded to the company with the lowest bid. Their contract was overseen by someone that doesn;t have a clue on what they are reading so there are many things left out or sub par. so in the end of the job, the comany goes to the gov't and asks for more monies to bring the sub par items up to the contract specs and believe it or not.....they get it....

The most famous is to have in the contract that any change by the govt voids the contract and the company gets to charge what they want....it then is either paid in full or goes to mediation where the company gets most of what they ask for......because....the govt doesn't want to be the one to make any company go bankrupt.

It is all a game....some know how to play and some will learn eventually

[Harley Guy 5]

Lets say you are on a island, just two of you, One is the king the other is the banker, the king goes to the bank i need a $100, the banker say oK. but it going to cost you 6%,  The end of the year comes and the banker ask for his $106. Did the King Have the extra $ 6?

Now put 4 people on the Island you have the banker, and the other  three ask for a $100 @6%

Two of them had something the other what'd at $6 each,  At the end of the year two of them was able pay the banker back his $106 each
But the third one was short $18

Their  only so much money we can make and still have something to show for it. As you can see 2% have save most of the money
and are not buying anything to keep the system going.

[FLSTFI Dave]

So what's the answer people ?  We all know there has to be one. It might not be popular, certainly would be painful but I am sure there is an answer.

The answer is as simple as what a few of us have been discussing amoungst ourselves ona personal level. Stop spending more than we earn, pay what we owe and only buy what we can afford. Pretty simple. On a national level that involves saying NO to a lot of people who have not heard that word much if ever in their lives. One of you more well versed than me in economics can flesh this out if you choose, but the path we need to follow is simple and obvious. What doesn't seem to be out there is anyone with the will to lead us down that path.

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The bold is the root of the problem in my opinion.  None of us run our house hold the way the government runs theirs.  We try to not spend more than we bring in, many if not most of us spend less than we bring in.  We put some aside for the future. 

The Federal government needs to do the same.

[Hugh Janis]

The bold is the root of the problem in my opinion.  None of us run our house hold the way the government runs theirs.  We try to not spend more than we bring in, many if not most of us spend less than we bring in.  We put some aside for the future. 

The Federal government needs to do the same.

Not true.  A big part of the problem was "interest only" mortgages allowing people to get into loans they otherwise couldn't afford and then taking out "debt consolidation" loans for up to 120% of the value of their home.  Now it's impossible to get such financing but the fed is still doing that with our future.

[ice6900]

an Irishman telling like it is!

[red ben59]

 Lets raise a glass for an Irishman that sugar coats nothing! 

[FLSTFI Dave]

Not true.  A big part of the problem was "interest only" mortgages allowing people to get into loans they otherwise couldn't afford and then taking out "debt consolidation" loans for up to 120% of the value of their home.  Now it's impossible to get such financing but the fed is still doing that with our future.

I had said the bold is the root of the problem.  Here is the bold again "Stop spending more than we earn, pay what we owe and only buy what we can afford. Pretty simple."

Seems it is true for the Government. 

Seems it is true for the people.  Your example is people spending more than they can afford.

Most people do not spend more than they can afford.  The ones that did helped crash the housing market.

[Rio]

BOTTOM LINE:  We need to quit making excuses for our government and their wreckless spending (both sides).  They play games with our tax money and piss it away on local compromises of self interest.  We need to also quit making excuses for people and paying for their STUPIDITY!  We need to be like every other country and set limits to immigration and enforce strict policies and penalties to employers that abuse our labor laws by employing illegal aliens.  We have to cut off medical and social services to these people as well, the reason they come here is because they can't get them back in their country.  We need to tax the chit out of imports, force foreign companies to invest here and manufacture here like other countries do!  And most of all, we need to get rid of the FEEL GOOD politicians and get some responsible people in local and national seats that QUIT SPENDING OUR TAX DOLLARS ON STUPID CHIT, and stop the fricking bailouts!  The result, people that had noting are better off today than 4 years ago because they were able to erase the effects of their stupidity and wrecklessness.  This cost jobs and depleted the wealth of those that are educated, work, own business, that were responsible with their money and contributed to society!  Look at whats going on in Wisconsin?  WTF should state and local government pay more than the going rate for the same level of talent?  This chit doesn't make sense and its sending our country into bankrupcy. 

[Spiderman]

Crimson Slate - - I agree with you 100% You stated in brief the only plan that will put this country back on track. The problem is not one single self serving politician in this country will stand behind your ideas as they go against all the special interests that got him/her elected and keep them in office. Only if we as voters literally toss out every incumbent all at once and bring in a completely new slate of Representatives and Senators can we hope for change. Since the process dictates that we do not turnover all of them at once, the new ones coming in like the current crop of Tea Party people soon get assimilated into one of the two long standing machines (much like the Borg from Star Trek) I hate to sound like a defeatist but basically where I'm at is trying NOT to think about it very much any more. I realize it's hopeless to dream of any of the things you mention and it only causes me great stress to do so. I am 57 and simply want to live out my remaining years as best I can under the totally effed up system we now have and sad as it may sound, let the future worry about itself. I am a nobody and there's no sense in deluding myself into thinking I have even the effect of a flea on a gnat's ass of changing anything. As Hoist says " I just wanna be free to ride my machine"


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[sanjoseduke]

The underground economy is doing fine.
I live in the central valley of California; which was ground zero for house foreclosures a couple years ago, there were over 2,000 foreclosed homes for sale in the Tracy/Stockton  California area alone. Today there is almost zero inventory for sale. Many homes that come on the market today find multiple offers and sell for significantly more than the asking price. Who is buying these homes? Mostly first time home buyers with FHA financing, and investors who purchase these houses cash. Unfortunately many of these homes were in poor condition because of lack of maintenance or vandalism. The banks will not loan money on these homes because of the dis-repair, which leaves the typical home buyer unable to purchase them. The investors purchased them in bulk, repaired, painted, landscaped, and cleaned them up and sold them to first time buyers at reasonable prices. Sounds good so far right? The question is who did the repairs, painting, and landscaping? Mostly undocumented workers or tradesmen who have been out of work for a year or two did the work. Do you think any of them paid employment taxes, or have medical or workers compensation insurance? The answer is no!
Go into any restaurant and look at the cooks, bus boys, and dishwashers, how many documented workers do you think you’ll find? Not many that’s for sure.
The central valley is rich with orchards, farms, vineyards, and row-crops. You won’t find many documented workers here either. Try to find a landscaping service that employs documented workers, good luck finding one. It has recently come to my attention that there are a significant number of undocumented workers in several of the building trade unions all over California. What is going on? I’ll tell you what is going on, government at all levels has turned a blind eye on illegals. Many of our American tradesmen have run through the 99 weeks of unemployment and are desperate for work. Many of them have found themselves working side by side with illegal’s working for cash.  It seems the only way our small contractors can be competitive is to hire this underground workforce. This is a very sad state of affairs if you ask me.

SanJoseDuke

[Rio]

Yep,  It will be a matter of time before the "tea party" elects will get sucked into the self indulging political machine!  We got a new governor here in Michigan, a successful businessman from Ann Arbor.  This guy is in office shaking up the Democratic spending machine, and he is doing a wonderful job of pissing people off!  Michigan is a perfect example of our country's poor politics, self interest, and purposless spending.  How can a state be in the bottom 4 for economic growth for the past 15 years and be OK with that?  Michigan has tremendous resources, some of the finest education at all levels in the entire country.  THey are now just beginning to realize that they were vulnerable being one dementional tied to the automotive industry.  Now they are exploring all sorts of various industries that will maximize the talent and resources coming out of our local universities.  Many auto manufacturers wanted to make Michigan home until the UAW demanded union structure.  Now these same companies are employing thousands of people in places like the Carolinas, Tennessee, and Alabama.....how stupid, and how can the people allow this to happen?  Most people are not aware of this, but German owned Manufacture BMW builds and EXPORTS more vehicles out of the United States than any other Automobile Company in the US!  They build 100% of their SUV's in Spartanburg and ship them around the world while employing over 10,000 Americans!  I have to stay off this site....this topic get's my blood boiling!  Good thing this site is mainly Conservitives, the other side wouldn't consider riding loud gasoline powered inefficient machines!  I think they may have a CVO VESPA site?

[bbrown]

The real issues are consumer related
1. unemployment still high
2. gas prices moving up
3. the Japan thing and its impact globally

I am looking at a rough ride for this year

[Fired00d]

Reminder To All...

If you want to discuss economics that's fine, if you can't separate economics from politics and feel the need to include politics in your posts don't make a post. Politics aren't allowed on this site...

rules of posting to www.CVOHARLEY.com

[10]Content posted on this site is intended to be motorcycle related, non motorcycle content may be removed at administrators/moderators discretion. No political discussions will be allowed in any board

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Spiderman]

Reminder To All...

If you want to discuss economics that's fine, if you can't separate economics from politics and feel the need to include politics in your posts don't make a post. Politics aren't allowed on this site...

rules of posting to www.CVOHARLEY.com

[10]Content posted on this site is intended to be motorcycle related, non motorcycle content may be removed at administrators/moderators discretion. No political discussions will be allowed in any board

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I almost called 911 I'm such a state of shock this thread has lasted this long 

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