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[DesertHOG]

The point is the bikes that wobble at any speed (some as low as 30 mph) with or without holding on to the handle bars.  It's ugly scary when you observe it.....I can't imagine what it would be like to experience it first hand.

I've experienced slight wobble on a couple of past bikes, usually started in a curve at higher speed (50-60 mph) but there are those that it's happening to a much slower speeds and a lot more severe.

I can't help but wonder if somebody that's posted that it hasn't happened to them...or reading this and thinking it....that at some point in the future will experience it.  Of course I would hope that nobody else ever experience it....but if/when it happens, I hope they do post about it.

Maybe I had crappy bikes in the past. Certainly my old Yamaha Road Star had issues with going in a straight line at 25mph without a firm grip on the bars.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

I see many good points in this thread.... below are several examples from personal experience

2001 SERG (friends) does wierd things in sweepers.... but the bike has almost 80K... dont think he'd ever done swingarm bushings. There was one instance where it almost bucked him like a bronco, but he saved it.... now it has new bushings, mounts and a bagger brace... and he rides a bit slower now...

2003 Road King (another friend) went into a death wobble while the 3 of us were our horsing around at about 90.... he almost crapped his pants .... traded the bike in. Said he would never ride a bagger again!

2003 Fatboy (mine) wobbled twice: once due to low air pressure in the front tire, and once due to bad neck bearings. The tire was under 30psi and I accept my responsibility in that for not checking air pressure. the neck bearing caught me at 75... with hands off the bars... THAT could have been ugly

2008 FLHX (mine) loose neck bearings from day one (low speed).... day 2 back at the dealer..... fixed, no problems after.

2009 SERG again, loose neck bearings (low speed). front tire cupping so bad it almost tossed me off the bike (hi-speed 80+)... tire replaced under warranty. No problems since

now.... yes, the death wobble exists... is the mocos fault or is it a result of the lack of maintenance? from what I see it looks to be about 50/50...

the other think I do see is those that blame the death wobble for crashes that are operator error related... you know the ones.

[Beemer]

The best part of this thread is ...

...where you have people with the Avatar Half-Crazy and Wild Card debating a safety issue

[Half_Crazy]

just don't let your estate bring a wrongful death suit against Harley for a "death wobble"

My estate would have to sue Polaris...

67" wheelbase and 33 degrees of rake is not well suited for the tight cone-weave in a parking lot.... but she's as stable as the Queen Mary going straight...

[Wild Card]

The best part of this thread is ...

...where you have people with the Avatar Half-Crazy and Wild Card debating a safety issue

   Motorcycle safety is one thing...however, extreme sports are my vice, hence the "Wild Card"! 

[BalDeagle]

As JC said the issue here is not "Hands On" or "Hands Off". The simple point of the matter is that the bike shouldn't do it.

I have been on advanced riding courses (on airfields/closed roads) where the instructor would get you to ride the bike over a plank of wood or through a pothole with no hands. This was to show you how stable a motorcycle really is. With no hands the bikes front wheel would shudderas you went over or through the obstacle and then immediately correct itself once you were past. This is basically a point of physics as the gyroscopic effect of the rotation of the wheel automatically makes the wheel revert to it's straight on format.

If the wheel starts to wobble of it's own accord then there is clearly something wrong with it and it should be attended to before a calamity occurs. Nowadays I make it part of my riding to occasionally loosen/slowly let go of the handle bars to make sure that all is running straight and true. My SERK will travel at any speed without me holding the bars with no wobble at all.

Incidentally, on the same advanced course we even tried to wrench the bike off course by pulling on the side of the tank whilst riding with no hands. The bike will not go because of the centrifugal force of the wheels and also the pistons. The pistons also act to keep the bike upright which is why, at very slow speed (slow riding competitions, traffic etc) it is better to keep the revs slightly higher as this will help the bike to stayupright.

BD

P.S. and Einstein never even owned a Harley!!!

[Cvostu]

Just seems like RG's have this issue more than others. It happened to me on one and I'll never for get it.   It was at 35 mph and just glad it didn't happen while I was going faster  I'm back on my Electra glide and I really don't think about that while riding.  I will say I do read almost everything I can find on here when it comes to this subject.  I'm just waiting for the day they can get it right 

[DesertHOG]

Just seems like RG's have this issue more than others. It happened to me on one and I'll never for get it.   It was at 35 mph and just glad it didn't happen while I was going faster  I'm back on my Electra glide and I really don't think about that while riding.  I will say I do read almost everything I can find on here when it comes to this subject.  I'm just waiting for the day they can get it right 

Interesting that you would ID the RG since any of the public reports I have seen broadcast have involved Road Kings and Street/Electra Glides. I think you need to group the whole large frame touring class together on this one, of course HD would disagree altogether.

[BalDeagle]

Interestingly it is usually the rider that makes matters worse when a "Tank Slapper" starts to occur. Because of the speed that the front wheel starts to move side to side it is almost impossible to correct. By the time the rider is trying to correct the handlebars going in one direction they are already going in the other direction  so the riders attempt to stop it usually results in pushing it further in the other direction. Advanced riding technique would recommend maintaining a gentle hold on the handlebars whilst decelerating until the "Slapping" stops.

A tough call to keep such presence of mind in such a brown pants panicky situation.

BD

[JCZ]

Add to the issue of instability on some bikes (yes, it seems like it's much more on the Road Glide since the 09 models have came out.....or at least the majority posted on this forum have been Road Glides of 09 and later) the problem of wheel weights flying off (and denting fenders) on newer models.

What if we're loosing wheel weights and don't even know it?  I can't help but wonder if that's added to the problem.  Somebody posted in the past few weeks that there's been a service bulletin distributed by the MoCo about the chrome wheel weights.....apparently the chrome was breaking loose (surprise, surprise) and the weight will come loose). 

And then there's the added problem of just a huge amount of weights all together on a wheel......where the tire looks like it's just way, way out of balance.

I believe that all these issues deserve more conversation because we all know the squeeky wheel is the only wheel getting the grease from the MoCo.

[grc]

Interesting that you would ID the RG since any of the public reports I have seen broadcast have involved Road Kings and Street/Electra Glides. I think you need to group the whole large frame touring class together on this one, of course HD would disagree altogether.

Historically, the high speed wobble has been more of a RK and EG issue.  Of course, that isn't surprising to me since the RK and EG have fork mounted windshields/fairings, which feed forces directly into the steering system, versus the frame mounted fairing of the RG.  And then there is the other factor, actual number of each model on the road.  I think you will find there are about a gazzillion more RK's and EG's on the road than there are RG's.

The large number of reports recently about low speed wobbles on the RG's is a different and separate issue.  This one appears to be just more of the same ol' same ol' lack of quality from H-D.  They really don't seem to have much in the way of effective process controls; that's how you get so many undertightened or overtightened fasteners, improper bearing preload settings, etc.  Fortunately, they have a crackerjack group of dealers to catch all the f-ups before the customer takes possession.


Jerry

[Dan_Lockwood]

The large number of reports recently about low speed wobbles on the RG's is a different and separate issue.  This one appears to be just more of the same ol' same ol' lack of quality from H-D.  They really don't seem to have much in the way of effective process controls; that's how you get so many undertightened or overtightened fasteners, improper bearing preload settings, etc.  Fortunately, they have a crackerjack group of dealers to catch all the f-ups before the customer takes possession.

Jerry

Jerry, I think your observations are correct and I agree.  I do have a thought though on the RG's.

I have an '09 SERG and have had the Fall Away set twice on my bike under warranty.  I know have about 8550 miles on it.  I have of late with losing a saddlebag last summer, been reaching back with both hands to make sure my bags are still there...  I've done this as well as adjusting my pull strap on my sun glasses at in town speeds, less then 45 mph.

While both hands are off the bars, i notice the bars start to wobble and soon get to a point that if I didn't grab them, I'd be thrown from the bike and down it would go.  I think one of the reasons of this on a RG more than RK or EG is that the batwing fairing tends to act as a flywheel and tends to stabilize the handlebars from wind as well.  On the RG bikes, it's just the bars alone with nothing to help stabilize them or to slow them down.

I know that we should not remove both hands at once, but it does happen sometimes and the bike should not take a dump because of it.  They should be stable and not need constant hands on resistance to not start to wobble.  I've also just held on with a couple fingers to see what would happen and guess what, the wobble will start at those slower speeds without any input other than just smooth roads.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Jerry, I think your observations are correct and I agree.  I do have a thought though on the RG's.

I have an '09 SERG and have had the Fall Away set twice on my bike under warranty.  I know have about 8550 miles on it.  I have of late with losing a saddlebag last summer, been reaching back with both hands to make sure my bags are still there...  I've done this as well as adjusting my pull strap on my sun glasses at in town speeds, less then 45 mph.

While both hands are off the bars, i notice the bars start to wobble and soon get to a point that if I didn't grab them, I'd be thrown from the bike and down it would go.  I think one of the reasons of this on a RG more than RK or EG is that the batwing fairing tends to act as a flywheel and tends to stabilize the handlebars from wind as well.  On the RG bikes, it's just the bars alone with nothing to help stabilize them or to slow them down.

I know that we should not remove both hands at once, but it does happen sometimes and the bike should not take a dump because of it.  They should be stable and not need constant hands on resistance to not start to wobble.  I've also just held on with a couple fingers to see what would happen and guess what, the wobble will start at those slower speeds without any input other than just smooth roads.

I frequently reach back to check the saddlebags, even the tour pack... and I do the same with my glasses with the lanyard...

I dont recall this moderate speed wobble since the dealer:

1) Adjusted fall away
2) Replaced the cupping D407 with a D408F

Since then its been good... (now I've done it) and I frequently set the CC to maintain speed while doing this....

I am about to replace front and rear tires (front is worn out.. rear has a nail) and put a set or LRB pads on it ... I will ask them to check fall away while they have the front end up and adjust if needed.

Will report back...

[Cvostu]

I'm thinking that the Road Glide and all touring bike for that matter have the fall away check as part of the "set up" by the dealer before they even put the bike on the showroom floor.  They get paid from the Moco for practically doing nothing anyway and we pay it as well.  I can't see paying $600.00 to have the put a seat or a windshield on.  A little pride goes a long way if someone needs their jobs and customers these days 

[..Hawk]

Just read an article stating that the wobble tends to be more prevalent when the fuel tank is low.  For those that have experienced the problem the article suggests filling the tank and then try to repeat the previous ride conditions to see if the wobble disappears or at the very least lessens.
The opinion is based on the balance and geometry of the bike.

Could be true?