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[Midnight Rider]

The guy doesn't know what he's talking about...the CAT is in the header pipe where the two pipes come together before going into the right rear muffler and the crossover.  Tell him you just talked to a guy that replaced his stock headpipe with the Fullsac Xpipe, pulled the stock cores out of the stock mufflers, and replaced them with 2" Fullsac cores.  NO Cat in the mufflers.  Prior years, but definitely not in the 2011 models.  Get him to throw in a set of stock CVO mufflers and heat shields if he want's to bet you...then you'll have a stock set and a modified set.

[Minglewood]

The guy doesn't know what he's talking about...the CAT is in the header pipe * * * NO Cat in the mufflers.  Prior years, but definitely not in the 2011 models.

Unbelievable that a guy selling Harleys for over 20 years could be so misinformed about such an easily verifiable fact.  He said that the CAT is in the exhaust on the 2011 CVOs and in the header/cross-over on the 2011 non-CVOs, which is why he offered to throw in an exhaust from a 2011 non-CVO.  Won't effect my purchase decision.  I also won't correct him as that would turn into something ugly (salesman always know).  Thanks for the info.  You have the bike I'm looking at, except I'm a fan of the Ivory.  Gotta be different (notice the tangerine in the earlier CVO version).

[Midnight Rider]

You will discover, as in this case, that the dealer/salesperson is rarely aware of all the things that are different on the CVO bikes.  I've not seen the Ivory version in person, but they're all good looking bikes.  Be sure you get all the stuff that comes with the bike...they don't know that either, sometimes.  It's a shopping bag full of stuff.  They also don't know how a lot of the stuff works on the bike, like the fact that the fork lock/ignition switch locks with the Fob.  They don't sell a lot of CVO's, so I cut them some slack...when I picked mine up, I was telling the salesman how stuff worked on the bike...he didn't have a clue.  Nice guy though.

PS...you're going to love this bike.  It might take a little tweaking to make it fit you, and to perform/sound like you want it to, but HD got it right with the RG IMO.  Windscreens are the main thing people have to change out.  The seat is good, and the handlebars are in a good position, at least for me, and I'm short.

[RedDevil]

Did the salesman give me wrong information?  I was in on Saturday looking seriously at a 2011 CVO RGU.  He said that on the 2011 CVOs, the cat is in the exhaust not the header pipe.  Now this guy is no slouch (he owned the dealership about 10 years ago) and he is generally a straight-up guy.  He also offered to throw in an exhaust from a standard 2011 bike while I look into replacing the exhaust CAT baffles with non-Cat baffles.  Is he misinformed?  I searched for hours and couldn't confirm.  I know I can call Steve, but today is a holiday and I am getting impatient (and must stop searching).

BTW - I am the former owner of the 3rd CVO ever built, which is why I still hang out here.  Currently riding '09 FLTR.

TC's right.  Since the MoCo went to the cross-under design for the exhaust system in 2009, the CAT (first just for the CVO's in '09, and then all touring starting in '10) has been located in what is call the "collector", that oval part of the exhaust system where the header pipes meet and then separate out again to join up with the mufflers.  The Vance and Hines Power Duals and Fulsac "X" pipe essentially remove the big collector and have literally an "X" where the header pipes meet.  Both do an excellent job and provide modest performance increases with lowering heat radiation by getting rid of the super hot CAT.  When your dealer talked about non-CVO pipes, I think he was thinking 09 when only the CVOs had CATs in the collectors.  If he gave you a standard 2011 exhaust, you haven't gained anything as there still is a CAT in the collector.   I've  got the Vance and Hines Power Duals on my SESG, but I had the CAT removed from the collector on my SERGU, as I wanted to keep the stock header look on it.  (the Fulsac "X" pipe uses the stock heat shields giving the stock look, however, it only cost me $90 to have my dealer remove the CAT, so it was a lot cheaper.)  I would question what other things your dealer is telling you if he got twisted on that basic information.

[Minglewood]

I had the CAT removed from the collector on my SERGU

Sounds like drilling out the CAT still works as the most basic CAT removal mod.  I wasn't listening to much else that the salesman was saying.  The location of the CAT was the thing that caught my attention since it was different than I had thought.  I won't hold it against him.  These days we customers know a lot more about the product we are purchasing than the guy on the floor.

[RedDevil]

Sounds like drilling out the CAT still works as the most basic CAT removal mod.  I wasn't listening to much else that the salesman was saying.  The location of the CAT was the thing that caught my attention since it was different than I had thought.  I won't hold it against him.  These days we customers know a lot more about the product we are purchasing than the guy on the floor.

I personally wouldn't advise "drilling" out the CAT.  The whole collector is filled with CAT material, and the front head pipe actually sticks into the collector more, so if you're not careful, you could damage the pipe.  The best thing to do would find a metal shop (or dealer, if you trust them) and have them cut the collector in half and then air chisel the whole cat out, or, the CAT material can be "melted" out with an acetylene torch, and then weld the collector back together. 

[Minglewood]

The best thing to do would find a metal shop (or dealer, if you trust them) and have them cut the collector in half and then air chisel the whole cat out, or, the CAT material can be "melted" out with an acetylene torch, and then weld the collector back together. 

Hmm.  If I remember correctly in 2009 CVO folks were drilling/boring out the CAT, then starting the bike to blow out what was left of the CAT before reattaching the muffler.  Something change or just not advisable for the reasons you stated?  I doubt the dealer here would do this cut/weld work but I can check with my Indy.

[Midnight Rider]

Hmm.  If I remember correctly in 2009 CVO folks were drilling/boring out the CAT, then starting the bike to blow out what was left of the CAT before reattaching the muffler.  Something change or just not advisable for the reasons you stated?  I doubt the dealer here would do this cut/weld work but I can check with my Indy.

That's because on the '09 bikes the Cat WAS in the mufflers....you could drill them out with a core drill.  You cannot get all the material out of the collector without splitting it and re-welding, IMO.

If you buy an X pipe for the header pipes, you use the stock heat shields and might get a slight improvement in power and a little different sound than if you gut and weld the stock header.

[HOGMIKE]

FWIW:
Just buy a replacement x-pipe, keep your stock one and be done with it in an hour!

[Midnight Rider]

FWIW:
Just buy a replacement x-pipe, keep your stock one and be done with it in an hour!

X2...the Fullsac system...X-pipe, cores, and TTS Mastertune is about the easiest exhaust change you can do, and a bunch less expensive than a complete aftermarket exhaust system + Dyno time.  If you do the work yourself, the whole thing is about $1100.  It's an afternoon's work and about 3 beers.  A significant improvement all the way around over stock.

[HOGMIKE]

That's because on the '09 bikes the Cat WAS in the mufflers....you could drill them out with a core drill.  You cannot get all the material out of the collector without splitting it and re-welding, IMO.

The '09 Touring bikes had the cat in the headpipe in the CA, cvo and export bikes. The "49" state bikes had no cat in the headpipe. Pre-'09 touring bikes had cats in the front part of the mufflers (CA bikes,and export)
ALL '10-'11 touring bikes have cat in headpipe.


If you buy an X pipe for the header pipes, you use the stock heat shields and might get a slight improvement in power and a little different sound than if you gut and weld the stock header.

Lot easier to by the replacement pipe, gain 3-5 HP and be done with it! IMHO
 

[HOGMIKE]

X2...the Fullsac system...X-pipe, cores, and TTS Mastertune is about the easiest exhaust change you can do, and a bunch less expensive than a complete aftermarket exhaust system + Dyno time.  If you do the work yourself, the whole thing is about $1100.  It's an afternoon's work and about 3 beers.  A significant improvement all the way around over stock.

Only 3???
Took us many more! LOL
 

[Midnight Rider]

Only 3???
Took us many more! LOL
 

Beer consumption when working on the bike is directly related to whether I want to be able to take it for a test ride when I get done...

[Minglewood]

The Fullsac and a 6-pack sound good.  Summarizing:  '09 - '11 Touring CVOs all have the CAT in the header pipe.  None of those bikes have the CAT in the muffler/exhaust pipe, and the salesman is dead wrong here.  The '09 non-CVO, non-CA doesn't have a CAT (that's my current setup).  Presumably the cat on the '10-'11 non-CVOs is also in the header pipe.  As between the (i) drill or cut/weld, vs. (ii) the Fullsac X Pipe, TTS and new muffler cores, the latter is the way to go, but presumably the drill method still works unless something did change since '09. 

I've got my Fullsac plan -- 3 beers for me and 3 for the wrench -- my 21 yr old kid who gives me courage to take things apart and support putting it back together. 

Thanks.

[Matt k]

Just had the stage 1 fullsac installed on my '11 CVO ultra. Have 4" Reinhart slip-ons.  Sounds great, WAY cooler, power improved (no Dyno).  DId a lot of study and this is the way to go.