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[lonewolf55]

I'm looking at changing the oil pump to a Feuling as well as a high flow camplate when I do cams/heads. The way I see it, when it's torn apart already I like to upgrade, just trying to get something that runs okay to run better, IMHO.

I think the stock plate is just fine. If you want a good pump. http://www.tmanperformance.com/oilpump_camplate.htm

[digga25]

The more oil flow the cooler the engine runs.Heat promotes increased friction and wear. Premature wear and replacement.The after market cam plates,and super oil pumps advertise more oil flow and reduced temps.So FWIW.

[cahdbiker]

digga25, what lifters and pushrods did you use? Thanks in advance. CAHDBIKER

To replace the oil pump you have to open the cam chest,remove the cam plate and the oil pump is on the inside of the camplate.It runs on the pinion shaft. Easy job if you have a manual....torque specs and step by step install. Use a lot of assembly lube. Motor seems to run cooler.Idle pressure 10+, cruise speed 2000 rpm 47-50 psi. Changed the lifter and pushrods motor is now quiet,no more tic tic tap tap. Couldnt stand that noise. Always afraid of doing damage to the motor. Now smooth and sounds like a motor should. Never would have attempted the change if it wasnt for this forum.Love it.Fred

[digga25]

cahdbiker, I installed the Feuling cam chest kit. All Feuling parts,lifters,pushrods,cams, bearings,racing oil pump,camplate.

[Midnight Rider]

FWIW...increased pressure does not necessarily mean increased flow.  There is a finite amount of fluid or gas (like air, not fuel) that can flow through any given size opening, so while higher discharge pressures might flow more product through some areas of the engine, it won't do chit in others.  As a matter of fact, I personally can't recall a single case of anyone's motor taking a crap due to insufficient oil pressure or flow, except in those cases where the oil pump itself took a crap because of excessive runout...even on the "older" twin cams (pre '07) that ran less than 5psi (shown on the inaccurate OP guage) at idle.

In fact, excessive pressure can do great harm, depending on the application and characteristics of components within any given "system".  I've personally seen hoses burst, blow off, or otherwise fail...and I've seen large HVAC commercial ducts blow out...all due to excessive pressure.  Another example would be:  Any given oil cooler is designed around flow characteristics that maximize heat transfer for "normal" operating parameters...just like a cooling coil in your A/C unit, radiator, a plate and frame heat exchanger, etc....excessive flow/pressure can actually reduce efficiency in many cases.

I'm not saying that there are not better made parts out there that are more robust than stock stuff.

[HD Street Performance]

What indication if any is there any of the twin cams need any additional pressure or flow?
Only benefit I would be looking for is improved scavenging. The Thayer 3 stage pump offers an improvement.

[djkak]

What indication if any is there any of the twin cams need any additional pressure or flow?
Only benefit I would be looking for is improved scavenging....

Exactly! These machines build all the oil pressure they require. Introducing more oil than needed simply adds overhead to the scavenging process, which should be the priority.

FWIW, at idle, the oil pump was designed to cut off all pressure lubrication to the connecting rod bearings on Shovel’s built from 1973 up, and all EVO’s. When the oil pressure reached 12 psi, a port in the relief tower opened, allowing oil to reach the rod bearings. 12 to 35 was the spec; normal hot pressure was 15ish.

In that era there was a product made that replaced the cap on the pressure relief tower with a knurled knob. This allowed the rider to dial up the oil pressure into the stratosphere, and just like comfort food, it made the rider feel better. The funny thing is that cranking down this knob just raised the RPM necessary to lubricate the rod bearings, but you felt good about it.

The main bearings of these early machines, as well as the Twin Cam, aren’t lubricated with pressurized oil. The plain bearings in the late TC Cam Plate rely more on pressure than the earlier ball and roller bearing do, but that’s been taken care of.

Sportster’s built from 1977 through 1990 had a unique oil pressure switch that would complete the circuit for the oil light at 2 psi. I believe (from memory) the high end of the spec was 12 psi. The later XL’s with hydraulic lifters have an oil pressure spec that looks something like 7 to 17 PSI; again from memory.

If you want to jack your oil pressure into the stratosphere, consider a cupcake instead.

[cahdbiker]

Thankx CAHDBIKER

cahdbiker, I installed the Feuling cam chest kit. All Feuling parts,lifters,pushrods,cams, bearings,racing oil pump,camplate.

[cvobiker]

Exactly! These machines build all the oil pressure they require. Introducing more oil than needed simply adds overhead to the scavenging process, which should be the priority.

FWIW, at idle, the oil pump was designed to cut off all pressure lubrication to the connecting rod bearings on Shovel’s built from 1973 up, and all EVO’s. When the oil pressure reached 12 psi, a port in the relief tower opened, allowing oil to reach the rod bearings. 12 to 35 was the spec; normal hot pressure was 15ish.

In that era there was a product made that replaced the cap on the pressure relief tower with a knurled knob. This allowed the rider to dial up the oil pressure into the stratosphere, and just like comfort food, it made the rider feel better. The funny thing is that cranking down this knob just raised the RPM necessary to lubricate the rod bearings, but you felt good about it.

The main bearings of these early machines, as well as the Twin Cam, aren’t lubricated with pressurized oil. The plain bearings in the late TC Cam Plate rely more on pressure than the earlier ball and roller bearing do, but that’s been taken care of.

Sportster’s built from 1977 through 1990 had a unique oil pressure switch that would complete the circuit for the oil light at 2 psi. I believe (from memory) the high end of the spec was 12 psi. The later XL’s with hydraulic lifters have an oil pressure spec that looks something like 7 to 17 PSI; again from memory.

If you want to jack your oil pressure into the stratosphere, consider a cupcake instead.

Good points   

[HD Street Performance]

Ouch!
That is the feel of a fatter wallet in your back pocket, a good ouch, by leaving the oil system stock.

Consider if you have >12PSIG pressure you have now blown through the piston oiler jets and oil is coming out of them at idle when the scavenge system is barely working due to the low speed of the gerators. Could cause some problems.

Got money to spend and want value added to the stock HD TC oil system?,
This oil pump described in this patent offers improved design and does that using three stages and uses HD gears in a billet housing.
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110189042

Dan Thayer Corfu NY
Also sold by Tman Performance

[grc]

TCinBham, Deweysheads, and djkak are right on the money.  Of course, money is at the root of this entire discussion, as in the money those companies make selling unnecessary "racing" products to Harley riders.  It's a bit like the folks who made money selling those powertrain stabilizers to reduce bagger wobble (rear steer).  When Harley changed the frame, swingarm, and engine mounting system in '09 to address the underlying causes of the problem, complaints about the wobble dried up for the most part.  But those companies and even a few new ones continued to push the stabilizer products for the new models.  Not because they were needed, but because they wanted the easy profits.  I look at this oil pump stuff as the same sort of thing. 

A Twin Cam is designed for X amount of oil flow, and that flow is controlled by the size of various passages in the cam plate and the engine cases as well as check valves for things like piston cooling jets, not just the volume rating of the pump itself.  At normal operating temperatures, the spec for oil pressure is 30-36 psi @ 2000 rpm.  If that's what yours measures, I don't see a need to dig into both the cam chest and your pocket to change anything.  If yours doesn't produce specified pressure, then I suggest a little diagnostic work to determine exactly why it's low.  May not have a thing to do with pump volume, it could be a sticking relief valve or check valve for the cooling jets or some other issue.

The oil system is just that, a SYSTEM.  Changing out one part of that system without considering the overall effect is not a great idea.  But by all means, go ahead and believe all the sales pitches.  Folks selling stuff would never mislead anyone, would they?


Jerry

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Don has a great point. Why is it that some think you need more pressure .  First off these engines are mainly roller bearing engines so less oil pressure is needed.  We use a fair amount of the DT pumps on the larger engines to keep oil off the flywheels.

We have had many issues with customers that bring there bikes in for tunes with big pumps etc, and we find 10 plus OZ of oil in the bottom end. These are production engines and some set ups will end up creating more issues than they solve.

I tap into the system and check the pressure with a real gauge, the sending units are not always accurate. You may see very little pressure at idle with the stock set up, but check it , and most times you will see that it has 13-15 at idle.

We see that many times oil pressure issues are other things, bypass plunger not sealing IE leaking around end of plunger. Piston jets that pop off too soon and end up bleeding the pressure off. Crank pinion that is scored, etc. 

Dan T is a great guy to talk with on pumps and you can get on the wrong side of the flow % . 

[HD Street Performance]

As bizarre as this seems I used to look for and buy the first twin cam oil pump before revisions
Why??? Because the scavenge gerator was wider. Only good idea for an "A" motor however. The revision put the wavy washer in to prevent drainback on the "B" motor.
Side benefit, less cam plate wear because the gears are not being forced against the plate. Lap the housing to less clearance and you had a very decent oil pump setup.

[CVODON]

Increased pressure by itself is not a cure, increased volume might be a help, but the current OE system does a good job (or has for me on the last two bikes and 70,000 miles).

[Lever]

so am i to understand that up grading the cam plate and oil pump is a waste of money ?