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[glens]

If you look at the other Cobra offerings you will note they still have the 3 adjusting screws and work just like the old TFI modules

The unit under consideration here doesn't even have the adjustment.  Its "auto" function is that when you're accelerating, it toys with injector timing modifications to determine if any changes would be "beneficial" (increase the rate of engine acceleration).  It's a novel idea, really, and likely well worth granting a patent for.  As you said above, and I've said many times at various places (forums), if you have a stock bike with stock calibration or a "stage one" bike with stock or stage one calibration, it would likely perform fine for you.  But this unit has a price tag of $600!  So... you not only lose your closed-loop control but a chunk of wallet padding.

I recently "spoke" with someone about this in http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/topic,46925.0.html

[lilcoot]

I stand corrected.  The O2 sensors are bypassed, not used.  My mistake.  I've always found grc's advice to be spot on.

I also think more has been read into my earlier posts than I intended.  I'm in no way telling anyone to use the PowrPro.  I thought it would be interesting to see if it works the way it's advertised.  Plus, I want to do motorwork incrementally, and IF the PowrPro does adapt to modifications automatically, it's just another option.  If it doesn't work as advertised, then I'll gladly throw it in the garbage and send Cobra some hate mail.

I just wanted to pass on my personal experience and opinion to a couple of questions on the board.  Everyone I've talked to who has had direct experience with this product has had very positive impressions.  Personally, I'm still skeptical of Cobra's claims, and don't think it's a better option than the others.  I won't know that until I actually try a Power Commander or TTS.

Here's what I know so far:  

-Throttle response and power are definitely improved.  I've done simple modifications (intakes, chips, pipes, sprockets) on dirt bikes, quads, jet skis, and a truck.  Next to a simple sprocket change, this is the most dramatic improvement I've felt.

-Simple install

-Engine runs MUCH cooler

-No more stalling and a lot less decel pop

-Smoother idle and cruising at freeway speeds than stock

-Initial drop in mpg, which is improving, almost back to stock levels.  With an increase in power, I would expect a drop in mpg.  My throttle use is more aggressive since the change.

-Eventually I may get a TTS or Thundermax.  I really would like to compare the drivability and dyno differences. I don't like the lack of adjustability in the Cobra, and don't know how well it will adapt to modifications yet.

This is the bottom line:  The Powrpro has so far done everything a fuel controller is supposed to do.  Just because it isn't a traditional approach/technology doesn't mean it's not legitimate.  

Finally, I never expected it to turn a Harley into a Hayabusa.  WTF kind of non sequitur statement is that?  Also, referring to another new product as snake oil and BS, with no direct experience, is arrogant and condescending.  So is insinuating someone is a fool for purposely trying something new.  I kinda hoped this site was supposed to be a forum for discussing different ideas and sharing our experiences.

[SBB]

 I've always found grc's advice to be spot on.

 Also, referring to another new product as snake oil and BS, with no direct experience, is arrogant and condescending.  

 I've always found grc's advice to be spot on.

Jerry's advice is always spot on.

 

SBB

[grc]

I have to disagree once more (I sure tend to be disagreeable, don't I?).  My comments aren't always spot on, and I'm just as liable to be FOS as anyone else around here at any particular point in time.  Of course, that is offset by my tact. 

I meant no harm to anyone here with my comments, and if anyone took those comments to mean I was trying to demean you or your choice I apologize.  However, I still maintain that this $600 device is in no way, shape, or form a legitimate total tuning solution.  The new version utilizes some different algorithms based on acceleration rate instead of the old pot system, but it still just alters fuel delivery and has no user controllable adjustments.  If you don't like the idle or cruise settings, too bad, you can't adjust them.  If you want to change ignition timing, too bad, you can't adjust it.  If you want to modify the decel enleanment settings to address popping issues, too bad, there is no adjustment.  And the list of things it won't do just goes on and on and on.  If the thing sold for $200 and didn't promise the moon, I'd have very little so say about it.  When it sells for significantly more than a real tuning system like the TTS, and it's distributor gives no real information other than advertising puffery with which to make your decision, I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. 

Anyhow, to each his own.  If it makes you happy, then it's fine with me.  As long as folks don't try to make it out to be more than it really is, I'll shut up.  Just don't ask me to buy one, or ask me to shut my mouth if I feel people are being misinformed as to the real capabilities of the device.


Jerry

[glens]

IF the PowrPro does adapt to modifications automatically, it's just another option.  If it doesn't work as advertised...

So long as the modifications don't require or at least desire spark timing changes it'll likely do just fine.

I believe the earlier "versions" did not have the ability to remove fuel, not that you'd necessarily want to make modifications that would require that in general, but it might happen here or there.  Perhaps this one would be able to handle that task if/when needed.

Personally, I'm still skeptical of Cobra's claims, and don't think it's a better option than the others.  I won't know that until I actually try a Power Commander or TTS.

Of course that would depend upon just what it is they're actually claiming...

Your are aware that the Power Commander is intermediate between this device and a TTS and none of the three are on equal footing?

-Engine runs MUCH cooler

-Initial drop in mpg, which is improving, almost back to stock levels.  With an increase in power, I would expect a drop in mpg.  My throttle use is more aggressive since the change.

If the engine is running cooler only as a result of installing this device, then you can know you're burning more fuel than you were.

If your fuel economy returns to what it was before I'm pretty sure it'll be accompanied by heat levels like they were before, too, if just this device is the reason the heat was reduced.

Doesn't a more active wrist usually accompanies changes?  :-)

-Eventually I may get a TTS or Thundermax.  I really would like to compare the drivability and dyno differences. I don't like the lack of adjustability in the Cobra, and don't know how well it will adapt to modifications yet.

Let's see:  this device, a Power Commander, a TTS kit, a T-Max...  That's got to be topping a couple grand unless you're buying some of it used.  My hat's off to you being that interested in seeing for yourself how they compare.

This is the bottom line:  The Powrpro has so far done everything a fuel controller is supposed to do.  Just because it isn't a traditional approach/technology doesn't mean it's not legitimate. 

For a fuel controller, no doubt it's successful.  A "fuel controller", though, really has a very limited range of applicability.  In order for it to have a chance the calibration really needs to be fairly close to begin with, especially in terms of spark timing.

If they're claiming you can get by with just their (this) device in the face of changing cams and/or displacement and/or head work and/or exhaust plumbing changes then you can safely ignore both their claims and their product.   If you're going to do any of that type of work to your engine, it'd be better to look elsewhere for engine management.