Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Midnight Rider]

Also something to think about and that is adding a non-Harley tuner to the bike could Void your warranty.  I added V&H mufflers to the bike (2012 SE Ultra) and will Wait to do the Xpipe later on.  Don't plan on doing a aftermarket tuner.  May not even add a Sert depends on how it runs.  Right now the bike runs really great. 

Technically speaking, doing ANY mods to the bike voids the warranty, even with HD's own product.  However, HD has to prove that the modification performed is the direct cause of the failure.  That's the law.  While adding slip on mufflers to the stock header pipe does not cause any real problems, when you change the header pipe and thus remove the catalytic converter, your bike is not going to run right if the ECM is left in stock configuration.  Period.

I can assure you that if you rode a bike that is properly tuned, whether it be with the TTS, SERT, or whatever, you would think your bike runs poorly in comparison.  And I'm not talking about HP/TQ (though that is improved with proper tuning), but simply drivability.  You just think your bike runs great right now.

If you own a laptop, you can work with the TTS yourself...even the "canned" maps provided by Fullsac will be a dramatic improvement over stock.  If you are concerned about warranty work, it takes about 15 minutes to load the stock ECM program back into the bike with the TTS, and Harley will never know it.  Of course, if you're on a trip somewhere and break down, that's a different matter, though a small laptop is something I normally carry on trips anyway.  Throwing in the TTS dongle and cables takes up hardly any room, so if you had to, you could load the stock map back in on the side of the road, before the wrecker comes to pick up the bike and take it to the dealer.

[CVOmedic]

Putting my order in today!  Fullsac, TTS and CFRs.  Spoke with Andrew over at RevPerformance and the word is there will be no EMS for '11 or '12 ECMs.  Didn't really get to ask him why not, but he said it didn't look like they were going to be able to offer a product.

So I hope you guys are ready for me to burn your eyes up with questions about this TTS!  LOL

[Midnight Rider]

It's an air pump...the cat is very restrictive with regards to pumping more air through the motor and out the exhaust.  When you remove the restriction, the motor pumps more air but the ECM is not progammed to add adequate fuel, so you make an already lean running engine run even leaner...that equals more heat and an engine that is starving for fuel.  The tuning device allows you to add more fuel when needed.  That's the simple version...

The bottom line is that if you change the head pipe to a catless version, you must also add a tuning device to compensate for the added flow through the intake/exhaust system.  The bike will drive and perform MUCH better than it does now.  There are hundreds of posts on here about this subject matter.

[Smitty2u]

Well today I checked with my Harley dealer and they said if you remove the cat it will not change it that much.

I would be looking for another dealer or shop to work on my scooter.

[mjb765]

I would be looking for another dealer or shop to work on my scooter.

X2

[Midnight Rider]

If all you do is replace the head pipe so you have no cat two HD dealers have now said no you do not need a tuner.  If you change header pipes and air cleaner probably will.

First, you ALREADY have a high flow air cleaner on the bike (the Ventilator), so changing the air cleaner assembly is totally unnecessary unless you just don't like the looks of it.  So that's the first thing your dealerships don't know their ass from a hole in the ground about.  Secondly, whether you put an aftermarket header pipe on the bike, or simply remove the CAT from the stock header pipe, PRECISELY the same thing is occurring...you are flowing more air through the intake/exhaust.  Many people on this forum have done just that...take the stock header pipe off, cut the pipe where the CAT is located, removed the CAT, welded the pipe back up, and reinstalled.  But I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those that did that (or put an aftermarket header on the bike, like the Jackpot, Fullsac X Pipe, V&H "H" pipe, true duals, etc) have a tuning device on the bike to add more fuel and improve performance/drivability.

If you don't' put a tuner on the bike after removing the CAT, your bike will run, but how well it runs is a different matter entirely.  Expect hotter engine temps, higher oil temps, and issues with throttle response.  It's your bike, so do/don't do whatever you choose, but both dealerships you've spoken to are either ignorant, lying, or both.  Or, they simply do not understand how their product operates.  That would not be unusual at a HD dealership.

We all welcome new members here, and if you ask a question, you will generally get excellent advice because we've all been there and done that...usually multiple times.  But if you choose to ignore solid advice by experienced HD owners, then that is certainly your prerogative.  However, don't keep saying "my dealer said this, or my dealer said that" when it is a well established fact that many dealers don't know their ass from their elbow, particularly if you are talking to a salesperson.  Your original (incorrect) statement has been more than adequately addressed.

[grc]

    It does make one wonder why folks would even hang around a site like this if they were so sure the dealership was such a great source of always accurate information.  That idea is especially funny to those of us who have had the opposite experience at several dealerships, where they didn't understand the basics, what equipment was supposed to be standard, or how to operate some of the stuff much less repair it.  It would be nice if every dealership had fully qualified and educated folks, but I'm not planning to hold my breath until they become reality.

If you want to look at the question literally, then no, you don't NEED a tuner.  If you're satisfied with less than optimum performance, fine.  However, if you plan to spend a grand or more on exhaust mods, it does seem rather silly to cheap out on the tune.  Why not just leave the whole thing stock and save the grand too?  It's a little like buying the fastest and most expensive PC on the market and hooking it up to a dial up internet connection to save a buck.


Jerry

[grc]

Sorry dude, but there is a big difference in just throwing on a set of slip-on mufflers versus a complete exhaust system including a catless headpipe.  And like I said, if you're happy with the way Harley tunes the stock bikes, feel free to leave the tune stock. When you decide to open your mind just a tiny bit, go find someone with a relatively stock bike that has been properly tuned and take it for a ride.  Then try to tell us you really prefer the stock tune.


Jerry

[Midnight Rider]

Guy I have been around for a long time, maybe not here.  This is my second CVO and did the whole tuner stuff with expensive exhaust to it and you know what I got a dog of a running bike.    You may think I'm kind of a stupid newbie here, you just have a one track mind, Tuners.  You remind me of another guy on another bike sit that pushes and pushes tuners.  You think every bike runs like crud if it don't have a tuner on it.  I'll bet you have spent way to much money on tuners in your life time. I'm gonna just enjoy this bike as it is with just the slip on mufflers and save my dollars and maybe buy a few more guns. Have a nice day.

That is NOT what you stated in prior posts.  You said that you were going to put an X pipe or similar (removing the CAT) on the bike and that your HD dealers told you it would run "fine".  That is pure, undiluted Bullchit.  In fact, I'm pretty sure nobody here REALLY gives a chit what you do, but are offering sound advice based on years of experience with HD motorcycles.  Any qualified mechanic would tell you exactly the same thing...note the "qualified" part of that statement.

If you are happy with the way your bike performs, then ride it and don't make statements based on poor information.  If you had a bike that was tuned and ran like crap, you simply got a bad tune by someone who didn't know WTF they were doing.  End of story.

[Doc 1]

Guy I have been around for a long time, maybe not here.  This is my second CVO and did the whole tuner stuff with expensive exhaust to it and you know what I got a dog of a running bike.    You may think I'm kind of a stupid newbie here, you just have a one track mind, Tuners.  You remind me of another guy on another bike sit that pushes and pushes tuners.  You think every bike runs like crud if it don't have a tuner on it.  I'll bet you have spent way to much money on tuners in your life time. I'm gonna just enjoy this bike as it is with just the slip on mufflers and save my dollars and maybe buy a few more guns. Have a nice day.

I've been around for a long time too and I say Jerry is 100% correct.
Doc

[Twolanerider]

I'm so young and beautiful I couldn't have been around a long time.  But when you look this good you don't worry about nonsense like newbies trying to show whose is bigger. 

[sadunbar]

I'm so young and beautiful I couldn't have been around a long time.  But when you look this good you don't worry about nonsense like newbies trying to show whose is bigger. 

Whose what?   

[Twolanerider]

Whose what?   

Just had a real urge to be Abbott to your Costello .


What who?

Exactly!

[Fired00d]

Look dude I said I might later on.  You are so full of crap I'm really tired of you, take a hike dude.

Maybe you should relax and think about if this forum is a good fit for you... you certainly aren't acting like it.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[sadunbar]

Just had a real urge to be Abbott to your Costello .


What who?

Exactly!