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[Dead_Reckoning]

Could someone please list some of the Pros for buying and aftermarket Tuner?

I have a PC III on my 03 FLHRSEI2 and I am sold.

My neighbor seems to think his 2009 FLHR OEM ECM is doing a great job because he has 13:1 A/F ration.
SE Breather, SupperTrapp Exh and looking at CAMs.


Thanks
DR

[Twolanerider]

Dennis, don't get too hung up on the different devices.  After all, you don't use that device anyway.  You pay someone else too.  So find out whomever is the best local tuner within a range you're willing to travel.  Ask him which device he tunes best with.  Use that. 

You're paying that guy to do his best.  So use whatever he does best with.

[HOGMIKE]

Could someone please list some of the Pros for buying and aftermarket Tuner?

I have a PC III on my 03 FLHRSEI2 and I am sold.

My neighbor seems to think his 2009 FLHR OEM ECM is doing a great job because he has 13:1 A/F ration.
SE Breather, SupperTrapp Exh and looking at CAMs.


Thanks
DR

Sounds like you are "sold" on what you have, why change?

If your neighbor has 13:1 with all stock ECM.......somethings wrong.
Stock ECM is set for much leaner running than that.

 

[Dead_Reckoning]

Dennis, don't get too hung up on the different devices.  After all, you don't use that device anyway.  You pay someone else too.  So find out whomever is the best local tuner within a range you're willing to travel.  Ask him which device he tunes best with.  Use that.  

You're paying that guy to do his best.  So use whatever he does best with.

It is not for me Don. I have a PC III in my 03 SERK and gained 6 TQ and 6 HP.

I am trying to get my Riding Buddy to kick up his 09 Road King. I though he was convinced when I let him ride my 03 SERK.
It's not even a matter of which Tuner to buy, Mike still thinks his OEM ECM will be adequate when he adds CAMs.

This is what he told me yesterday.

I installed the supertrapp's and an SE  breather breather kit with a K&N air filter.   I didn't have the 5500 rev limit increased as the ecu will handle the change in equipment, the dyno numbers came in a 72 hp, 82pf tq and an a-f ratio of 13 to 1

Chick knows him as well and we both have tried to get him to touch base with DME, so far No Joy.


Cheers
DR

[Dead_Reckoning]

Sounds like you are "sold" on what you have, why change?

If your neighbor has 13:1 with all stock ECM.......somethings wrong.
Stock ECM is set for much leaner running than that.

 

Interesting, Maybe Mike doesn't really know what he has in his 09 FLHR.

DR

[Midnight Rider]

There are a couple of things incorrect in his statement:  For one, increasing the rev limiter has nothing to do with the ECM's capability of adapting to the changes he's made in the exhaust/intake.  It simply increases the point at which the bike cuts out and forces you to shift.  And stock is 5800RPM, unless I'm mistaken.  Second, there is NO WAY his A/F ratio is always at 13:1 if he's running the stock map in the ECM, with no other devices piggybacked, or the ECM map not changed by a tuning device capable of doing so.

The only downside to PC's is that they have been known to fail, but it's not a real common thing.  I ran one on my '06 SEUC and '06 SEVROD, mostly because that's what my local tuner (not HD shop) preferred using, and was happy with the way the bike's ran.  The only thing I'd recommend is downloading the PCIII's "map" so you'll have a backup copy if the original PCIII ever does go bad.  Or get a CD with a copy from the tuner.  Just for insurance.

I'd say your friend is misinformed.

[Dead_Reckoning]

There are a couple of things incorrect in his statement:  For one, increasing the rev limiter has nothing to do with the ECM's capability of adapting to the changes he's made in the exhaust/intake.  It simply increases the point at which the bike cuts out and forces you to shift.  And stock is 5800RPM, unless I'm mistaken.  Second, there is NO WAY his A/F ratio is always at 13:1 if he's running the stock map in the ECM, with no other devices piggybacked, or the ECM map not changed by a tuning device capable of doing so.

The only downside to PC's is that they have been known to fail, but it's not a real common thing.  I ran one on my '06 SEUC and '06 SEVROD, mostly because that's what my local tuner (not HD shop) preferred using, and was happy with the way the bike's ran.  The only thing I'd recommend is downloading the PCIII's "map" so you'll have a backup copy if the original PCIII ever does go bad.  Or get a CD with a copy from the tuner.  Just for insurance.

I'd say your friend is misinformed.

Thanks for the information.

Great idea for saving the map.
When younger brother, Spyderman, arrives for summer in Maine, he is going to help me do some upgrades to my 03 SERK and they will require a fresh dyno.
Good time to ask the Tuner for a copy.

DR

[grc]

Before you guys start disbelieving that 13:1 claim, don't forget that what is shown on a dyno chart WOT run is not in closed loop, and therefore it is not controlled at 14.7:1.  Harley's stock maps are pretty rich at WOT straight from the factory, often in the high 12's from the few stock runs I've seen.

If the guy is happy with a marginal setup, who am I to tell him he has to spend a bunch of money?  The fact that a good professional tune will in fact improve not only WOT but low speed and cruise may not interest him.  Kind of like an analogy I've used around here before, some folks buy the fastest computer on the market and hook it up to a dial-up internet connection.  If it floats their boat, so be it.  In the case of a more than stage I modified Harley, if it doesn't run well enough to justify the price for the cams and any other work, why bother?  And if the mods cause the fuel mixture to become so lean it damages engine parts, since the ECM is very limited in how much it can adjust through adaptive learning and offsets, I guess the money saved on a proper tune can be applied to the repairs.


Jerry

[clegg]

     I have had 2 PC's fail on me. the last one was replaced under warrenty, but will not be going back on my bike. (If anyone is interested it has never been installed. Marelli setup, bare tuner, no cable etc.) I am thinking of trying the S&S Marelli conversion like the zippers. Anyone try that? My 106 build is about done, so that 38mm twin bore will probably be a little short on flow..

[hogasm]

     I have had 2 PC's fail on me. the last one was replaced under warrenty, but will not be going back on my bike. (If anyone is interested it has never been installed. Marelli setup, bare tuner, no cable etc.) I am thinking of trying the S&S Marelli conversion like the zippers. Anyone try that? My 106 build is about done, so that 38mm twin bore will probably be a little short on flow..

  $$

[clegg]

     PM sent. I don't mean to hijack your thread! I know a lot of people who like the PC, thats just my experiance. My bike ran great with it on, but if there is a loose wire some where or what I don't know. I just know I'm not fixing it on the side of the road again...

[petewerner]

Sounds like you are "sold" on what you have, why change?

If your neighbor has 13:1 with all stock ECM.......somethings wrong.
Stock ECM is set for much leaner running than that.

 

Mine(AFR) is below factory set up without an on-board tuning device just using factory supplied ECM.
Now, I do have a SERT that is used to change some things in the ECM but no device on board....

[petewerner]

Dennis, don't get too hung up on the different devices.  After all, you don't use that device anyway.  You pay someone else too.  So find out whomever is the best local tuner within a range you're willing to travel.  Ask him which device he tunes best with.  Use that. 

You're paying that guy to do his best.  So use whatever he does best with.

This is the best advice here and IF u find a good guy with a good history and many, many satisfied customers(even if u have to travel, it is that important)!!!!!

[Dead_Reckoning]

Hi Gang

What I am wanting to know is What Functions regarding Tuning does and aftermarket Tuner provide, that the ECM does not.
It's difficult to explain to someone what exactly the tuner can do, if you do not know yourself.

Can you balance each cylinder, ie Firing pressure, Fuel pressure and F/A Ratio?
By doing the above, can you control exhaust temps?

This is the sort of information I am looking for.
What exactly does adjusting those "Pots" do for you?

What extra Bells & Whistles does a High Dollar Tuner have over a moderately priced Tuner?

Me, personally, I already have a good Dyno Tuning shop that I like and trust.


Many Thanks
DR

[petewerner]

Beyond my limited aftermarket tuner knowledge!! But I hope someone with PC III and also the next level of tuner with the auto tune capabilities. I want to learn all that I can as your questions indicate!!