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[Fired00d]

I think we could take our 103's to a 110 and add a six speed tranny for a lot less then it would cost most of us to trade for an 07 and STILL have a better looking and sounding bike.

dd

There will always be something coming out faster/better each year that's the way of technology and improvements. I'm not the one to "keep up w/the Jones’s", and tend to stay happy w/a vehicle and enjoy it for several years (normally keep cars 10 years before getting new one, and scooters 5 years). Granted I don't put a lot of miles on a vehicle (own a 2000 Yukon with 39k on it that I purchased new, and have half that many miles on my scooter in 2 years), but I think unless something terrible happens vehicles should last longer then a couple of years. Maybe in a previous life I was an accountant and I'm just frugal w/my money, but I just don't see the reason to upgrade every couple of years. [smiley=confused5.gif] On top of that I haven't finished this project ( [smiley=pumpkin.gif]) of all the upgrades I have in store for it. Maybe I'm not at the stage in my life where I have unlimited "disposable funds" to do this, and if I did maybe I would change my attitude. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
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[KentuckyHarleyDude]

I will not pay over MSRP for any scooter!!! I would rather drive several hours get the bike at my price then pay some "stealer" absorbent prices because they think they got me by the balls. I normally don't like to use that word, but dealers that are ripping people off by selling scooters at outrageous prices are nothing other then "stealers".

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

dood I agree with you to a point but let me ask a question ...why is it that a lot of dealers get away with asking those absorbent prices ... and do you not think that it is because a lot of these dealers sell their bikes WAY over MSRP that it helps on the resale on OUR bikes ... just asking here ... if the dealers started selling the bikes at $1000.00 UNDER MSRP would you not think that would hurt the resale of used Harley's?

[Fired00d]

dood I agree with you to a point but let me ask a question ...why is it that a lot of dealers get away with asking those absorbent prices ... and do you not think that it is because a lot of these dealers sell their bikes WAY over MSRP that it helps on the resale on OUR bikes ... just asking here ... if the dealers started selling the bikes at $1000.00 UNDER MSRP would you not think that would hurt the resale of used Harley's?

Are resale prices not based on NADA, rather then what you paid for them? If you pay an absorbent price in the beginning you just going to get screwed more when you resell it, right? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Are resale prices not based on NADA, rather then what you paid for them? If you pay an absorbent price in the beginning you just going to get screwed more when you resell it, right? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

dood if you look close enough at NADA it will tell you that the bike can be worth up to 40% more then the retail value shown depending on condition ..accessories..and the market area you are in ...also if you look at the cover of NADA is says that is a "Guide" ...

Bama

[Fired00d]

dood if you look close enough at NADA it will tell you that the bike can be worth up to 40% more then the retail value shown depending on condition ..accessories..and the market area you are in ...also if you look at the cover of NADA is says that is a "Guide" ...

Bama

True to all of the above, but nothing says that you will get more because you were ripped off on the initial purchase? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] If this was an across the board thing and everyone was doing it then it may influence resale price, but as long as some dealers aren't trying to rip you off on initial price it's going to be hard pressed to get that money back on resale. JMHO

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

True to all of the above, but nothing says that you will get more because you were ripped off on the initial purchase? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] If this was an across the board thing and everyone was doing it then it may influence resale price, but as long as some dealers aren't trying to rip you off on initial price it's going to be hard pressed to get that money back on resale. JMHO

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

dood I like to buy as cheap as anyone but if I go into a store and purchase an item that is for sell without being preasured to do it ...no matter WHAT I paid for it how can it be a "rip off" ... I can always turn around and leave .... I suppose that term kind of rubs me the wrong way after 25 years in the car business and several years with Harley ..I have NEVER held a gun on anyone to make them pay my price for the product I was selling ... ripped off ?? ........... if you get "ripped off" the only person you have to blame is yourself ... JMO

Bama

[hd-dude]

dood I like to buy as cheap as anyone but if I go into a store and purchase an item that is for sell without being preasured to do it ...no matter WHAT I paid for it how can it be a "rip off" ... I can always turn around and leave .... I suppose that term kind of rubs me the wrong way after 25 years in the car business and several years with Harley ..I have NEVER held a gun on anyone to make them pay my price for the product I was selling ... ripped off ?? ........... if you get "ripped off" the only person you have to blame is yourself ... JMO

Bama

Well Said! [smiley=drink.gif]

[Fired00d]

dood I like to buy as cheap as anyone but if I go into a store and purchase an item that is for sell without being preasured to do it ...no matter WHAT I paid for it how can it be a "rip off" ... I can always turn around and leave .... I suppose that term kind of rubs me the wrong way after 25 years in the car business and several years with Harley ..I have NEVER held a gun on anyone to make them pay my price for the product I was selling ... ripped off ?? ........... if you get "ripped off" the only person you have to blame is yourself ... JMO

Bama

Maybe I could have used another (better, more PC ) term then ripped off as I agree with your statement as far as the buyer doing it to himself. In my previous post I stated that I would travel several miles to get bike at MSRP if local dealer wouldn't sell it to me at that price. The point I'm trying to make is I don't think that because some dealers are charging/getting more then MSRP that it will have influence on resale price as long as some dealers are selling them at/below MSRP. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Maybe I could have used another (better, more PC ) term then ripped off as I agree with your statement as far as the buyer doing it to himself. In my previous post I stated that I would travel several miles to get bike at MSRP if local dealer wouldn't sell it to me at that price. The point I'm trying to make is I don't think that because some dealers are charging/getting more then MSRP that it will have influence on resale price as long as some dealers are selling them at/below MSRP. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

dood your point is well taken but let me give you an example ... when I was a lowly Toyota salesman back in the mid 70's we were charging $MSRP + $750 for a $50.00 wax job but called it TechTor ...and sold them as fast as we could get them off the carriers ..and the resale of Toyota was EXTREAMLY high ....for YEARS dealers in the southeasten US sold these cars for over MSRP thus keeping the resale on the used product very high ...however as we got into the mid to late 80's and started building the Toyota's here and more and more came available the dealers started cutting one anothers throat to get rid of inventory ...Toyota became a car whore ....and the resale value dropped ....ecconomics 101 supply and demand ...I know your a smart guy but just making a point ... I can assure that the price a new bike is sold for will effect the resale of a used bike down the road ...do I want to pay more then MSRP no ... do I blame the dealer for getting all he can again no ...I can remember back in the late 70's through the mid 80's when HD almost went bankrupt ... a lot of the dealers in THIS area went out of business ...the ones that held on did it by the skin of their teeth and I am sure when they were having to almost GIVE thier Harley's away not many cutomers cared enough to offer them an additional $500.00 profit to help them stay in business .... Im sure most cutomers took advantage of thier misfortune ..I know I DID ....just a thought to ponder

Bama

[Fired00d]

dood your point is well taken but let me give you an example ... when I was a lowly Toyota salesman back in the mid 70's we were charging $MSRP + $750 for a $50.00 wax job but called it TechTor ...and sold them as fast as we could get them off the carriers ..and the resale of Toyota was EXTREAMLY high ....for YEARS dealers in the southeasten US sold these cars for over invoice thus keeping the resale on the used product very high ...however as we got into the mid to late 80's and started building the Toyota's here and more and more came available the dealers started cutting one anothers throat to get rid of inventory ...Toyota became a car whore ....and the resale value dropped ....ecconomics 101 supply and demand ...I know your a smart guy but just making a point ... I can assure that the price a new bike is sold for will effect the resale of a used bike down the road ...

Bama

Using the above scenario wouldn't the way the MoCo is mass-producing more scooters each year, and adding more CVO lines and more units of each model make the resale of recent models go down? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] I understand what your saying and see your point, but realistically I can't see it happening. However your background in the industry is definitely not something to take lightly concerning your theory and because of that if I were betting I would tend to bet on the information you are giving. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] But there is still that little piece in the back of my mind that is harboring some reluctance to accept it whole-heartedly. :-/

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[kazumdgc]

when I was dumb not that i can claim that problem has left me i paid way more than MSRP in Dallas only to find out how i got %^$#ed.

Now i will pay what I feel is fare.

[grc]

dood your point is well taken but let me give you an example ... when I was a lowly Toyota salesman back in the mid 70's [highlight]we were charging $MSRP + $750 for a $50.00 wax job but called it TechTor[/highlight] ...and sold them as fast as we could get them off the carriers ..and the resale of Toyota was EXTREAMLY high ....for YEARS dealers in the southeasten US sold these cars for over MSRP thus keeping the resale on the used product very high ...however as we got into the mid to late 80's and started building the Toyota's here and more and more came available the dealers started cutting one anothers throat to get rid of inventory ...Toyota became a car whore ....and the resale value dropped ....[highlight]ecconomics 101 supply and demand [/highlight]...I know your a smart guy but just making a point ... I can assure that the price a new bike is sold for will effect the resale of a used bike down the road ...do I want to pay more then MSRP no ... do I blame the dealer for getting all he can again no ...I can remember back in the late 70's through the mid 80's when HD almost went bankrupt ... a lot of the dealers in THIS area went out of business ...the ones that held on did it by the skin of their teeth and I am sure when they were having to almost GIVE thier Harley's away not many cutomers cared enough to offer them an additional $500.00 profit to help them stay in business .... Im sure most cutomers took advantage of thier misfortune ..I know I DID ....just a thought to ponder

Bama

I really should stay out of this discussion, but what the heck.  Bama, the supply and demand argument is right on the money.  Back in the '70's, when the first big oil shocks hit and we had gas shortages resulting in rationing plus surges in prices, people were trading their expensive full-size American cars for the Toyota's, Honda's, and Datsun's at a huge financial loss.  Much of this was extremely ill-advised, since the amount of money lost in the trade could never be recouped in fuel cost savings.  But for those who needed to travel and couldn't buy enough fuel due to the even-odd rationing system, etc., it became a necessary evil.  This is the one event that started the transformation of the Japanese car industry from a tiny player to the powerhouse you see today.  Dealers at that time were easily getting 1k to 2k over MSRP, and giving less than 50 cents on the dollar for the trades.  This is a true application of the supply and demand theory.  However, the marketing practices that took root and bloomed during this period, such as the "$750 Paint Protection Package, $500 Interior Protection Package", etc. were just blatant rip-offs which mislead the customer.  If you want to charge more due to market conditions, or just because you're greedy, then be up front and honest about it.  Some dealers avoided the misleading protection package BS and just added an honest statement to the sticker, such as "additional dealer markup".  As a salesman, I'd rather try to explain that one to a customer as opposed to lying about the benefits of the $20 wax job I was charging him $750 for, or the quick spritz of Scotchgard for $500.  

Jerry

[beerman]

Since I ordered a new 07 SE Springer and wouldn't have considered a 06 after I heard about 110/6 speeds I guess I feel that yes, 07 will hurt the 06 and older models a little bit
Imagine it's about 2011 and you're trying to sell your used 2006 SEFBoy with an ad in the paper....some idiot is going to call and ask if it's the 103 or the 110? and is it the 5 or 6 speed? And when you say 105/5 they'll go "oh"
Like a lot of you guys, I've been riding HD for over 30 years, since my 74 sportster days and I've sold a few bikes over that time. Try selling a Shovel after the EVO's came out. or a Iron Sporty after the EVO/Sportsters .Not easy. Try selling your 400 HP Z06 Corvette now that the new ones are 500 HP - sorry wrong board !!!
Supply and demand will dictate pricing more than 103 vs 110 though.
As to Old guys wanting comfort !!! Heck, I was looking to buy a Bobber for around low 20's when I first heard the CVO's were coming out with a Springer with a 110/6 sp......end of story....it's the best "buy" in Custom bikes on the planet right now. Big inches, 6 gears, lots of Chrome, Great paint, and a Warranty ......Sorry Big Dogs/Texas Choppers/etc.....I test road the SE Sprg at Sturgis and was blown away.   If I can't change the pipes.....I think can can live with it
BTW - I really appreciate the opinions and advise I have gleened off this site....can't wait to get my bike....until then I'm cruising around on a 1997 Her Sprg with a set of Knuckle Mufflers and a SE airbox...oh baby...58 HP at the RW !!!!! Yeah....I have to really hang on !!!

[ace4059]

I think we all get too hung up on resale value and what our bikes will be worth down the road. To me, my bike is not an investment. If I wanted to invest my money I would by stocks, real estate, etc.  I buy a bike to ride. I bought the CVO because I like the look, power, features and charisma it has. I plan on riding the piss out of it. When and if I sell it, the market will dictate what it is worth. In the time being I am not going to worry about how much it will depreciate. I am sure HD will come out with a newer, bigger,better and more desirable CVO model in the near future that will make the '07's less desirable and lessen their resale value. But what the heck, that is their job. If they didn't keep improving every year then we would all be happy to keep riding our old EVO's forever.

You can't blame the dealers for trying to make as much money as they can. If they are selling for 2K over MSRP and you can get it elsewhere for MSRP then the buyer is at fault for being willing to pay the higher price. It all boils down to the "want" factor. If you "want" it bad enough you are willing to pay whatever they are asking. We are not talking "necessities" here ladies and gentlemen. We are talking "luxuries".

If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford a CVO just ride it and enjoy it and don't sweat the small stuff. After all, it's just money.

'07 SE Ultra $33,495
Freight $335
Dealer Set-up $400
TTL $2000
The feeling you get when you ride it---"priceless"

[Fired00d]

I think we all get too hung up on resale value and what our bikes will be worth down the road. To me, my bike is not an investment......I buy a bike to ride. I bought the CVO because I like the look, power, features and charisma it has. I plan on riding the piss out of it. When and if I sell it, the market will dictate what it is worth. In the time being I am not going to worry about how much it will depreciate.......

You can't blame the dealers for trying to make as much money as they can. If they are selling for 2K over MSRP and you can get it elsewhere for MSRP then the buyer is at fault for being willing to pay the higher price. It all boils down to the "want" factor. If you "want" it bad enough you are willing to pay whatever they are asking. We are not talking "necessities" here ladies and gentlemen. We are talking "luxuries".

If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford a CVO just ride it and enjoy it and don't sweat the small stuff. After all, it's just money.

'07 SE Ultra $33,495
Freight $335
Dealer Set-up $400
TTL $2000
The feeling you get when you ride it---"priceless"

Exactly. I didn't buy my Pumpkin with resale in the back of my mind. I bought it because I loved the bike (color, styling, and performance). When it comes a time that I want to upgrade any of those the aftermarket will be well ahead of anything the MoCo will have out (if I were to upgrade performance now can you say Zippers/Jims?). If and when I do decide to sell my scooter it will be "used" and hopefully used up as I plan on riding it until one of us can't ride anymore. As you stated these are luxuries and just so happens my luxury is priceless to me. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

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Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]