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[hdff]

so let me ask this question... which would be better a TTS with a generic tune in it from fullsac or a TTS tuned on a dyno to my exact bike by a good tuner. i assume that the fulsac would be cheaper than the TTS +tune? any thoughts on this?? the bike in question is a 2012 seuc with a fuelmoto head pipe and 2" baffles (no packing) in the stock cans. just trying to get my ducks in a row before i buy............

[LC110]

TTS tuned on a dyno to your exact bike by a good tuner.

[grc]

so let me ask this question... which would be better a TTS with a generic tune in it from fullsac or a TTS tuned on a dyno to my exact bike by a good tuner. i assume that the fulsac would be cheaper than the TTS +tune? any thoughts on this?? the bike in question is a 2012 seuc with a fuelmoto head pipe and 2" baffles (no packing) in the stock cans. just trying to get my ducks in a row before i buy............

Not sure if I understand what you're asking.  If you just want to know if a custom tune by a fully qualified and competent tuner is likely to be better than one of the canned maps, then yes that is very possible.  If you're thinking you have to make that decision before buying the TTS MasterTune package, then no that is not true.

Many folks have been very happy with the maps supplied by Fullsac, and if that is the case it saves you several hundred bucks and any possible hassles for a custom tune.  If you try their map and you aren't fully satisfied, you can still use the same device to have the professional tuner of your choice do a custom map.  It's not a one or the other situation, so I don't see the dilemma.    BTW, unless you already have experience with an ace tuner, don't automatically assume you can just stop by the first place you see and get a real "professional quality" tune.  There are more untrained or semitrained clowns out there than there are seasoned pro's who fully understand tuning.  Anyone can go out and buy a Dynojet, and as proof I'll offer up the vast number of Harley dealers who bought one over the past 10 years but then failed to hire and retain a truly professional person to do the tuning.  For instance, the local dealer has supposedly "trained" every guy in the shop to run the dyno rather than pay extra for a specialist.  Good luck getting a good tune from that place.


Jerry

[HOGMIKE]

Not sure if I understand what you're asking.  If you just want to know if a custom tune by a fully qualified and competent tuner is likely to be better than one of the canned maps, then yes that is very possible.  If you're thinking you have to make that decision before buying the TTS MasterTune package, then no that is not true.

Many folks have been very happy with the maps supplied by Fullsac, and if that is the case it saves you several hundred bucks and any possible hassles for a custom tune.  If you try their map and you aren't fully satisfied, you can still use the same device to have the professional tuner of your choice do a custom map.  It's not a one or the other situation, so I don't see the dilemma.    BTW, unless you already have experience with an ace tuner, don't automatically assume you can just stop by the first place you see and get a real "professional quality" tune.  There are more untrained or semitrained clowns out there than there are seasoned pro's who fully understand tuning.  Anyone can go out and buy a Dynojet, and as proof I'll offer up the vast number of Harley dealers who bought one over the past 10 years but then failed to hire and retain a truly professional person to do the tuning.  For instance, the local dealer has supposedly "trained" every guy in the shop to run the dyno rather than pay extra for a specialist.  Good luck getting a good tune from that place.


Jerry

 

[Midnight Rider]

You are likely to find that the canned map from Fullsac performs perfectly fine in the bike, and as mentioned, if you're not happy, you can then try and find a competent tuner.  On the newer bikes with closed loop operation, I personally don't think there are significant differences between motors that the canned map and ECM can't accomodate. 

[AZ Sparky]

Not sure if I understand what you're asking.  If you just want to know if a custom tune by a fully qualified and competent tuner is likely to be better than one of the canned maps, then yes that is very possible.  If you're thinking you have to make that decision before buying the TTS MasterTune package, then no that is not true.

Many folks have been very happy with the maps supplied by Fullsac, and if that is the case it saves you several hundred bucks and any possible hassles for a custom tune.  If you try their map and you aren't fully satisfied, you can still use the same device to have the professional tuner of your choice do a custom map.  It's not a one or the other situation, so I don't see the dilemma.    BTW, unless you already have experience with an ace tuner, don't automatically assume you can just stop by the first place you see and get a real "professional quality" tune.  There are more untrained or semitrained clowns out there than there are seasoned pro's who fully understand tuning.  Anyone can go out and buy a Dynojet, and as proof I'll offer up the vast number of Harley dealers who bought one over the past 10 years but then failed to hire and retain a truly professional person to do the tuning.  For instance, the local dealer has supposedly "trained" every guy in the shop to run the dyno rather than pay extra for a specialist.  Good luck getting a good tune from that place.


Jerry

Jerry is definitely right on all points - I'm very happy with my pre-canned map that I got from Fullsac.

I do have one question though for you Jerry - I didn't go back and explore the software because I am so happy with Fullsac's map but doesn't the TTS has a mode where you can fine tune the settings yourself?

I believe I've read several member comments to that effect in other posts...

[Midnight Rider]

Jerry is definitely right on all points - I'm very happy with my pre-canned map that I got from Fullsac.

I do have one question though for you Jerry - I didn't go back and explore the software because I am so happy with Fullsac's map but doesn't the TTS has a mode where you can fine tune the settings yourself?

I believe I've read several member comments to that effect in other posts...

Not answering for Jerry, but yes, you can do a V Tune by hooking up a laptop and using the TTS "box" to record data at various throttle/load conditions, then adjust the tables accordingly.  You bacically ride for an hour or so, if that long, with the computer on board the bike recording.  The instructions on how to do so are on a PDF file included with the TTS software.  A Dyno makes this process easier, as you can vary the throttle/load more easily than running down the road, but it is entirely possible to do so on the road...just takes more runs.

One of these days I may give it a whirl, but honestly, my bike runs so well with the canned map, I'm in no hurry.

[glens]

By all means, run a couple of v-tunes against that canned map.  Worst case is that you'll have wasted a couple hours of your time, mostly riding.  I'm thinking you'll benefit from it in most every case.  Maybe not enough to feel any kind of difference but at least the ECM's adaptive works will become nicely centered up in their ranges.  Probably will pick up a little bit of smoothness to the running.

[D-N-D]

X2

[AZ Sparky]

By all means, run a couple of v-tunes against that canned map.  Worst case is that you'll have wasted a couple hours of your time, mostly riding.  I'm thinking you'll benefit from it in most every case.  Maybe not enough to feel any kind of difference but at least the ECM's adaptive works will become nicely centered up in their ranges.  Probably will pick up a little bit of smoothness to the running.

I can just see me riding along and dropping the laptop on the pavement during a run - that would be fun to come home and explain to the wife person...

Sounds pretty funny though...

[glens]

You don't supposed to hold it on your lap!  :-)

[Unbalanced]

This is provided you have a good tuner to go to otherwise run of the mill maybe ok.

I am not downing the Fullsac maps they are ok, but not exact for every bike.  Just like the Perfect Storm maps from Kuryakyn.  Good enough maybe to get you by, but not for every single bike.

Get it tuned, every engine is different and a canned map is just that a generic.   Have seen the 3 of the same year bike one after the other tune out quite differently as much as 10 tq and 7 hp with the exact same hardware and map on them.   With some tweaking the 2 lower bikes were almost exactly the same as the top performer.

Harley builds in tolerances and they can add up and make a real difference in the power these bikes make or don't make.

Spent all this money on the bike, pipes, mufflers and TTS and then try to be frugal on the tuning     

 

[FLTRI]

After all the investment in parts it only makes sense to have it professionally tuned and quantify the investment.
This way you know exactly what power was made from the $$ spent.

Assuming all performance work was done correctly and the engine is running its best with the combination of parts is nothing more than assumption without data.

Consider these examples:
If SOP evaluation is good enough would you be happy if you found out it was dyno-tuned and produced 11 hp/tq less than other similar builds due to say, mistimed cam(s)?
How 'bout injector plugs crossed? The engine will run but not with all the power of the build.
How 'bout finding out the clutch slips? Usually don't notice slipping on the street until the discs are toast.
JMHO,
Bob

[grc]

You guys are forgetting one very important part of the puzzle.  I have seen and experienced supposed professional tunes that ran worse than a generic map.  The trick is finding a truly capable tuner.  Anyone can be a "professional" tuner; all the word professional means is that they get paid to do what they do, whether they're worth a chit or not.  Kind of like that millionaire outfielder in baseball who bats .159 and drops half the fly balls hit in his direction.

If someone has a known good tuner available to them, then by all means take advantage of a custom tune.  But for those who are stuck with the idiot nephew of the local dealer as the only local tuning choice, a generic map from a reputable guy like Steve at Fullsac is liable to be a better choice.  Tweak it with some V-tunes and you will be better off than most.  And let's face it, if the bike runs well, most of us would be more than satisfied even if there was another couple horsepower we didn't get.  Most of the folks asking these questions aren't involved in major builds or racing, they just want a better running street bike.  If you race it or run dyno shootouts, then yes it makes sense to spend a bunch on tuning to get that last tenth of a ft-lb.  For the rest of us, not really.


Jerry

[SHRK2TH]

Mine after the Fullsac X-pipe / and Rhinehart 4" seemed fine.  Not always pleased and have to have more.  Then added the Andrews 54 / .030 gasket.  Had occasional backfire, and decel popping.  Went to a tuner, best thing I could have ever done.  Throttle response, smoothness, and no decel pop.  A core tune makes a huge difference as no two bikes with mods are going to run exactly the same.