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[Midnight Rider]

OK...GDO will not work with the HID kit installed on the SERGU.  There is no logical reason for this, so I dug into it a bit deeper.  You can unplug the GDO from the harness and check the pins on the harness to see what is happening.  Switch on:  Check Orange (power) and Black (ground).  Should have at least 12 volts...it will actually be about 12.5V.  Check Black to White pin with the switch in the high beam position...12.5 Volts.  Check Black to Yellow pin in the Low Beam position...12.5 volts.  Plug it back in WITHOUT a HID headlamp plugged in and everything works...Transmitter LED lights up, garage door opens/closes.

Now...unplug the GDO connector, go through the same process WITH the HID plugged in:  Orange to Black...12.5 volts.  White to Black with the switch in high beam position...11.7 Volts.  Yellow to Black in low beam position...11.7 Volts

GDO will not operate with HID plugged in, so obviously the GDO needs a nominal signal voltage > 11.7 Volts

Two different types/brands of ballasts, both high quality.  First, WTF is causing the voltage drop to 11.7 Volts on the yellow and white wires?  Obviously it's the HID "system", but why?

Any obvious solutions for getting the voltage up to >12 Volts?  Or bypassing the HID's and sending the signal to the GDO through a relay activated from the H/L switch.  Or, am I just stoopid and can't see the obvious?

[bissjim]

The voltage drop you see is due to the resistance of the HID ballast, you will see this if the bike is not running. The resistance of the Ballast is much higher then that of the filaments in a regular lamp so you will see a voltage drop. The voltage should be at least 12.5 volts when the bike is running, if not you have a problem with the charging system or a problem with the HID components.

My thinking.

Jim

[porthole]

Do you see any diodes between the B+ supply and the before the HID ballast?
A diode will have .6 volts drop across it.

Did you check with the bike running? 11.7 is low. 12.6 volts is a fully charged 12 volt wet cell battery. Dropping that much seems to be an excessive draw and if it was running, either the regulator not "regulating" or the alternator not up to capacity.

Did you try any checks with other loads, like the seats? It is possible for an alternator to output the correct voltage but little or no current when they are failing.

[petewerner]

The voltage drop you see is due to the resistance of the HID ballast, you will see this if the bike is not running. The resistance of the Ballast is much higher then that of the filaments in a regular lamp so you will see a voltage drop. The voltage should be at least 12.5 volts when the bike is running, if not you have a problem with the charging system or a problem with the HID components.

My thinking.

Jim

My thoughts as well, start the bike and see if u still have the voltage drop... But I am not a wrench!!!

[Midnight Rider]

All voltage measurements are being taken without the bike running, but sitting on the jack hooked up to the Battery Tender.  There are no diodes present in the HID system that you can see.

It's not the battery voltage output being drawn down because the voltage on the Orange wire to ground is still 12.5 volts, with or without the ballasts fired up...the orange and black wires in the diagram supply the voltage to the GDO, but the SIGNAL to activate the GDO comes from the White and Yellow wires.  The voltage drop has got to be due to the Ballasts/Bulbs.  They are just standard Phillips ballasts that are supposed to be longer lasting and "better" with regards to interfereing with RF signals...not causing static in the radio, etc.  The Ballasts that came with the kit originally were a slim line digital ballast with a separate ignitor "box".  Thinking it was RF interference, the tech suggested swapping to the Phillips, which are thicker and slightly larger WxH, but the ignitor is built into the ballast so they end up taking up less space.  RF interference made some sense, so I upgraded to the Phillips ballast, but no cigar.

I will fire the bike up this morning and measure the voltage on the white and yellow wires to see if it improves, but that would not make any sense.  But sometimes electrical gremlins are not logical.

[Midnight Rider]

OK...digging a bit deeper.  Started the bike and the voltage increased to charging volts (13.5 or so).  So, it's obviously not a lack of voltage issue.  However, what I did discover is that the voltage never drops to 0 when switching the hi/low beam...there is some residual feedback voltage (approximately 1.5 V) that stays on the wire that is supposed to go to zero.

I have some thoughts in mind to test later, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

[Twolanerider]

OK...digging a bit deeper.  Started the bike and the voltage increased to charging volts (13.5 or so).  So, it's obviously not a lack of voltage issue.  However, what I did discover is that the voltage never drops to 0 when switching the hi/low beam...there is some residual feedback voltage (approximately 1.5 V) that stays on the wire that is supposed to go to zero.

I have some thoughts in mind to test later, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

TC, make sure I understand what you're saying and suggesting so far.

The problem isn't caused by an undervoltage condition on either side that is failing to trigger the GDO.  You thought it might be but found that with the engine running voltage levels were correct.

The problem might be that the GDO isn't triggered the other way because one side never completely opens and falls back to 0v.  The assumption being that any voltage is enough to to keep the GDO xmitter from knowing the lights have been switched.

Road Glides still use the H4 style bulb.  So you can't have separate high and low beam bulbs.  So the ballasts/ignitors are always involved. 

If all that's right sounds like there is a cap within the ballast/ignitor that is allowing a little bleed back on the side that's not going to zero.  To isolate check white and yellow on the headlight plug on the main harness without the HIDs connected.  Make sure it's at zero when you expect it to be.  If it is (as it likely will be) you might have to install a properly sized diode betweent ballast/ignitor and the GDO so it can't run back.

One other idea.  Totally shot in the dark.  But the headlights and GDO share a common ground source.  Might be worthwhile to dedicate a ground to the GDO.  Or at least make absolutely positively sure that nothing within the HID setup is feeding back that way.  I wouldn't expect it to.... until I found one that did once.  Was also on an H4 bulb type installation.

[Midnight Rider]

Don...that's what I did.  Checked everything without the HID in the system and everything bled back to 0 Volts when it ought to.  But it won't when the HID's are hooked up...almost, but not quite, so ANY voltage on the side that is supposed to be 0 must cause the GDO to "not see" it has been switched from low/high/low.

After doing a bunch of research, there is probably a way to fix this, but it involves building a relay with capacitors that will energize and then bleed off.

I can't find anything to show/tell exactly how the HD transmitter actually WORKS with regards to voltage requirements on the low and high beam wires that feed it signal.  There is NO reason that HD has to make this thing the way they do.  Something like the Flash2pass takes a receiver wired into your existing GDO just like the HD receiver, and the transmitter takes three wires:  hot, ground, and one switching signal wire.  For 60 bucks, that might be a path to take.

I'm going to figure this out.  Your suggestion is a good one.  I can only find two jumper wires in my tool box so need to run by some parts store and pick up a couple of more to rig up an easier way to test various ways to skin this cat without cutting wires.  Small insulated alligator clip type jumpers will just fit into the pin side of the connector, so things can be rigged up for testing that way...with some paper clip "pins" on the other side.  That will let me do the ground check you're talking about.  That's something that I haven't considered, but defintiely need to check, and will be easy enough with a couple of more jumpers and paper clips.

It's been since '97 that I've had to trace something like this down in a circuit of this type, so I'm slow.  And we didn't have HID's in electronic control systems for HVAC to get feedback where it ought not to be...

[porthole]

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram22.html

[Midnight Rider]

Well...not a grounding issue.  Time to punt...

[Twolanerider]

Well...not a grounding issue.  Time to punt...

Bike is too big.  That'll hurt your foot.

[kurtlange]

^^^ funny...

[Midnight Rider]

Bike is too big.  That'll hurt your foot.

I felt like kicking it, that's for sure.  If curse words helped, it would be fixed already...   Things like this make me say bad things out loud and to myself.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

I have a buddy with a Streetglide he had a similar issue... he had to move a few components away from each other for it to work. I'll find out more.

[Midnight Rider]

Yeah....   I got A garage door opener to play well with the HID's.  Flash2pass receiver and transmitter solved the problem of getting the garage door open by flashing the high/low beams.  The HD GDO simply will not work without going through modifications to the headlight circuit that should not need to be done.  Flash2pass transmitter:  2 wires. Tap into white and black on the headlamp harness going to the original HD transmitter and leave the HD transmitter unplugged.

$58.95 shipped to my door via USPS.

The nice thing about this receiver is that you can pair up to 6 of their transmitters to one receiver, so if you wanted to install one on your lawnmower, ATV, car, or whatever has a switched 12V hot and a non-chassis ground and you're good to go.  I may stick one on my car as well just to not have the transmitter hanging on the visor.