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[roadking71865]

Every time I start my bike my lifters, I think, are making all kinds of noise.  Sure sounds like them but something is clanging like crazy.  As I ride it slowly goes away.  It's never done this before.  What could it be?  Do I need to have the bike checked out?

[Twolanerider]

Every time I start my bike my lifters, I think, are making all kinds of noise.  Sure sounds like them but something is clanging like crazy.  As I ride it slowly goes away.  It's never done this before.  What could it be?  Do I need to have the bike checked out?

Without hearing can only speculate of course.  But could be a check valve in one/some of the lifters isn't working.  That would allow the lifter to bleed down while the engine isn't running.  Would then rattle on startup for several seconds until they were pressurized again.

[VANAMAL]

Weve been discussing this a lot. Lifters will clatter a little then pump right up. Piston slap clatters when cold and will lessen as piston heats up and expands. You wont get a straight answer fron the hd clowns. They will try to call it detonation or something else that it isnt.. A lifter change is pretty cheap and easy but anything you do to the bike will become cause to blame you.

[lilcoot]

 "could be a check valve in one/some of the lifters isn't working"

Don, I'm not familiar with the lifter check valve.  Is the valve an integrated part of the lifter, or is it a part that's separate from the lifter?  I had a lot of clatter with the stock lifters, and recently had new ones installed.  I had hoped that this would solve the cold clatter problem, but it didn't.  If replacing the lifters doesn't help, how do we fix lifter bleed down? 

Does bleed down cause the lifters to wear prematurely, or is it just a "normal" (HD's new favorite word) benign thing that comes with the 110?  I'm trying to figure out which of the numerous engine noises I can safely ignore.   

Dan

[VANAMAL]

Its not the lifters although it sounds like them. Its either piston slap or a valve banging on a jacked seat

[lilcoot]

"Its either piston slap or a valve banging on a jacked seat"

That's what I'm afraid of.

It's Harley Davidson's version of Occam's Razor:  "All things being equal, the correct fix will be the most expensive one."

Dan

[Twolanerider]

"could be a check valve in one/some of the lifters isn't working"

Don, I'm not familiar with the lifter check valve.  Is the valve an integrated part of the lifter, or is it a part that's separate from the lifter?  I had a lot of clatter with the stock lifters, and recently had new ones installed.  I had hoped that this would solve the cold clatter problem, but it didn't.  If replacing the lifters doesn't help, how do we fix lifter bleed down? 

Does bleed down cause the lifters to wear prematurely, or is it just a "normal" (HD's new favorite word) benign thing that comes with the 110?  I'm trying to figure out which of the numerous engine noises I can safely ignore.   

Dan

This may be a poor description Dan but I'll give it a try.  Yes, we're talking about something that is a part of each lifter.  Nothing separate.  When oil pressure pumps up the lifter this makes the lifter fully expanded or solid (not meant to compare to an actual hard lifter).  That expansion is what is correct for the length of the pushrods and rest of the system to both make the valves open correctly and to do that without clatter in the valve train.

If a lifter would bleed off when the oil pump is no longer supplying pressure then as the engine starts up there would be valve lash or free play in the valve train.  The hydraulic check valve in a lifter is intended to keep the lifter pumped up (enough) or, to put it another way, to keep up from not draining back when there's no longer oil pressure supplied by the oil pump.

If that check valve isn't working the valve train will be noisy on first start up.  This won't last long though.  It'll take only seconds for the oil pump to repressurize the system.  So if the noise you're concerned about lasts longer than that it's not a lifter that is unloading.

The only way to fix a lifter that is bleeding down is to replace that lifer.  They're not a serviceable item.  Having said that sometimes (rarely) you can solve the problem without extensive service.  Use a little Seafoam before the next oil change or a can of Marvel Mystery Oil as part of the next change (though I'd recomment not run it a long time before changing again if you do the latter).  Both might clean some bit of whatever is keeping the lifter sticky and get it behaving better again.  Not a likely solution.  But it is cheap and easy to try if it's actually a sticky lifter problem.

[HD Street Performance]

That explanation is correct for the most part. Dirt in the lifter is the major cause of issues. Considering all the issues we see with the 110 motor and lifters I am beginning to think these are wear items as they were in the EVO days. So a periodic cam chest and lifter inspection would be prudent on a major service.

[cahdbiker]

Roadking71865, Just wondering how long it takes for the noise you described to go away? On the S&S 107 I have in my 95 Heritage you would swear it was valve train noise, but it was piston slap. When your bike is warmed up and you go off of idle a bit and listen to it as it slows down to idle, see if you can hear a slight knocking noise just off idle. If it does that I would bet the pistons are loose. That was the situation on my S&S 107. Also if you had some kind of dirt or blockage in a lifter the noise would not go away after warm up.  I hope you get it figured out. Next time you start it put your ear down by the primary case. Maybe the automatic chain adjuster is not working properly. My 09 used to do that when it was new, but it went away after a while. Please let us know when you get it figured out. CAHDBIKER

Every time I start my bike my lifters, I think, are making all kinds of noise.  Sure sounds like them but something is clanging like crazy.  As I ride it slowly goes away.  It's never done this before.  What could it be?  Do I need to have the bike checked out?

[HD Street Performance]

One mor noise that gets overlooked in the 110, loose leaking ACR valve

[roadking71865]

UPDATE:  I went for a short ride tonight and on rapid accelleration noticed my oil light would flash on then immediately off.  Came home and checked my oil and was almost 2 QUARTS LOW.  WTF!!!  I didn't have any synthetic so I just put in Harley 20W50.  Hope that's OK.  That probably explains something.  How the hell could I be that low???  Guess I'll have to be better at checking my oil level.  This is my 5th HD and this has NEVER happened.

[Fired00d]

UPDATE:  I went for a short ride tonight and on rapid accelleration noticed my oil light would flash on then immediately off.  Came home and checked my oil and was almost 2 QUARTS LOW.  WTF!!!  I didn't have any synthetic so I just put in Harley 20W50.  Hope that's OK.  That probably explains something.  How the hell could I be that low???  Guess I'll have to be better at checking my oil level.  This is my 5th HD and this has NEVER happened.

I'm sure others that know a lot more than me will comment but I don't think I would have mixed dino oil w/synthetic oil... think I would have just left the bike parked until I could pick up a couple quarts of synthetic.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Lever]

mixing Dino with syn wont hurt  as long as it is the same weight  20w-50 Dino .... 20w-50 syn 

when you purchase syn blend that is what it is a part syn oil mixed with Dino .. not a 100% syn oil but a partial syn like 25%-to50% blend ...better then conventional  but however not as good as full syn oil

[HD Street Performance]

I don't think this is lethal, actually in my HD PHD training we were taught diesel conventional motor oil is an acceptable substitute for HD genuine oil. Syn3 is a blend of PAO or Esters (not sure which but I bet PAO due to cost) 60% synthetic, the base oil, and the rest is conventional oil and an additive package (cite:MSDS). HD does not list any API conformity data or have any product data sheets as most of the other major manufacturers readily offer. This was the makeup of the oil when I was wrenching, not sure today.

My advice, change the oil and filter now. Observe for oil usage or leakage and depending on if the bike is in or out of warranty respond appropriately to get it repaired, assuming there is an issue and it was just not under filled during a service.

[cahdbiker]

roadking7, if you recently had a service then I can understand oil being so low. I think it is important to check engine and trans oil after a  service. There are a lot of mechanics who really take pride in their work and want to do a good job for you , especially if you tip them, but there are others who are distracted or don't double check their work before signing off on it. I have read your posts before and it seems like you take care of you take good care of your bike, but two quarts low, wow, that would be scarey.Am I correct in assuming that even when the motor was hot you had no reading on your dip stick?CAHDBIKER

UPDATE:  I went for a short ride tonight and on rapid accelleration noticed my oil light would flash on then immediately off.  Came home and checked my oil and was almost 2 QUARTS LOW.  WTF!!!  I didn't have any synthetic so I just put in Harley 20W50.  Hope that's OK.  That probably explains something.  How the hell could I be that low???  Guess I'll have to be better at checking my oil level.  This is my 5th HD and this has NEVER happened.