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[grc]

There's a lot I'll fault Zippers for Jerry.  Not sure that charge is one of them.

Anyone with the package can do firmware updates anytime they want (if an update is available).  They just have to be willing to use the software provided.  If they go to the vendor and use his time to accomplish this same task, however, the vendor should get to charge for his time.  Just because the end-user should be able to do it on his own doesn't mean the vendor obligated to do it for him if he can't or chooses not to.  I doubt they'd tell you the charge was for the firmware itself.  It's a labor charge for the time to do the task.

My point was more about the fact that the bike did not run well, unlike what Zipper's always implies in their advertising, most likely due to one of their not so great base maps.  Thus he had pinging and popping that the autotune feature will never fix on it's own, even though they imply it will do everything but make you a nice cup of coffee.  Fixing that should fall on them, not the owner who paid through the nose for the product that claims perfection.  I agree with you about the updates to the firmware, if in fact that was really what they charged him for and not the base map tweaks.  But then there's the other couple hundred bucks to pay someone else to also tweak the tune.  Why was that necesssary if the T-Max is such a great product?


Jerry

[Twolanerider]

My point was more about the fact that the bike did not run well, unlike what Zipper's always implies in their advertising, most likely due to one of their not so great base maps.  Thus he had pinging and popping that the autotune feature will never fix on it's own, even though they imply it will do everything but make you a nice cup of coffee.  Fixing that should fall on them, not the owner who paid through the nose for the product that claims perfection.  I agree with you about the updates to the firmware, if in fact that was really what they charged him for and not the base map tweaks.  But then there's the other couple hundred bucks to pay someone else to also tweak the tune.  Why was that necesssary if the T-Max is such a great product?


Jerry

It is a frustrating product.  And I say that while using one.  Their Marelli to Delphi-TMax conversion package is a real option if you suffer significant Marelli failures.  When my ECM took a dump that's the way I went.  Wish there had been another company's option at the time.  But, with all the attendant hand holding the product requires to make it work ok, it's done an ok job.

The hand holding required is a nuisance though.  The company is only salt in the proverbial wound after the fact might they ever be needed.  The base maps are often so aggressive.  So many seem to be variations on some base theme too; a map rewritten from another map to fill a void rather than actually tuned to the newer map's actual hardware spec.

Lamenting the holes in the T-Max product is old news though.  It is what it is (just too bad it's not what it's promised to be).

[Ironhorse]

Well said twolane. I was one of those Marelli cases. I went Zippers Tmax when I should have gone carb. Thank God for those guys on Harley Tech Talk, they were better with maps and tweaking than Zippers ever was.

[LovemyCVOgirl]

It is a frustrating product.  And I say that while using one.  Their Marelli to Delphi-TMax conversion package is a real option if you suffer significant Marelli failures.  When my ECM took a dump that's the way I went.  Wish there had been another company's option at the time.  But, with all the attendant hand holding the product requires to make it work ok, it's done an ok job.

The hand holding required is a nuisance though.  The company is only salt in the proverbial wound after the fact might they ever be needed.  The base maps are often so aggressive.  So many seem to be variations on some base theme too; a map rewritten from another map to fill a void rather than actually tuned to the newer map's actual hardware spec.

Lamenting the holes in the T-Max product is old news though.  It is what it is (just too bad it's not what it's promised to be).

Amen    You nailed that one 

[willyB]

Been running a Power Commander V for about 15,000 miles (plus about 40,000 on my previous bike) and have had zero issues. I bought it from FuelMoto and they included the map for my setup. V&H Duals and Hi-Output Slip-ons.

The duals were way too loud so I cut out the cat and am now running a stock catless header. Same map, still no issues. The bikes been on a 4,000+ mile trip to the mountains.

I don't know squat about tuners but I'm pretty happy with the overall performance. I stuck it on a dyno 89 HP/108 TQ at 600 feet above sea level.

I see a lot of guys running the TTS here and a lot of talk about issues but that could just be because so many are running that product. You know, just a shear number thing.

Good Luck!

[bobsplus]

I agree the vendor does have to get paid for his time, I had no problem with that, I will run a few tanks w/o the booster and report back, What if I get some 103 racing fuel and add a gallon to a tank what will that raise the octane, I believe I'm correct octane makes horse power???correct. Or do I need to google octane and doo some research.... Bike has been running much better more power and smoother, and yes I like power why else would I have a 110 ci engine, might just as well go back to a 88ci......guys like power....

[Twolanerider]

I believe I'm correct octane makes horse power???correct.

No, it doesn't.  There is no more "energy" or "performance" in higher octane fuel just because it is higher octane.  The octane rating is only a rating of the fuel's ability to limit detonation (pinging).  No matter what anyone might convince themselves their engine is not more powerful because it has a higher octane fuel.  The only thing you gain is a little less detonation; if you had detonation problems to begin with.

Having said that...

Assume two identical engines.  One might be made to run a little better if it is tuned for and ran with higher octane fuel.  Because the timing might be able to be run a bit more advanced.  But that is not something that is changed from tank to tank on your street bike.

So; if your bike is tuned to run at 89 or 91 and you decide to drop in a tank of (for example) 104 AvGas your bike will (sarcasm mode = on) definitely run better.  Because the power to weight ratio has gone way in your favor.  Because the weight of all that extra cash you paid for the high priced fuel is no longer on your person.

All kidding aside; dropping in the higher octane fuel won't make your bike run better unless you somehow change to tune to alter the timing curves to push the slight differences in anti-detonation that the fuel will allow.  Which you're never going to do from fill up to fill up.