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Author Topic: what grade of fuel do you run and why?  (Read 1707 times)

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porkypig

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what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« on: September 05, 2012, 02:32:11 PM »

Yesterday I tried some regular 87 octane fuel in my 2012 stock convertible to see if it made any difference in the backfiring I have been experiencing since it was new about 9,000 miles ago.  I was told at 5,000 that the wrench who test drove it couldn't hear anything (maybe that's his problem; he can't hear anything!!).  But he said there is definitely something wrong with the engine needs to be torn in half and everything inspected.  I was advised by some wheel at MoCo customer service that sometimes it helps to switch fuel for a little while and see if that helps.  Said they would warrant the engine no matter what happened if I decided to continue riding it or leave it at the dealer as they had recommended.  finally they told me shades of "nothing is wrong with your engine; it's just fine" and I was allowed to take it and return if I needed to.  I have since put about 4K on it and it doesn't run any different.  But as I said, I put about 3.5 gallons of regular on top of 1.5 g of premium (92) yesterday and it seemed to make a positive difference in the backfiring.  thought the manual demands 92 premium and was wondering what others put in and how they like the performance?   Pork.
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Twolanerider

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 03:11:24 PM »

The difference in octane ratings is difference in the anti-detonation properties of the fuel.  Pinging.  That's it.  No performance nor other differences with higher or lower octane pump gas.  Performance differences perceived from different loads of otherwise good pump gas are either placebo effect or coincidental to other factors. 
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Jasray

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 03:16:50 PM »

Pork,

You need to have that bike dyno tuned, it was the best thing I ever did for my ConV.  When I took it to the tuner I had mid-grade gas in it figuring I would be covered either way.  Don't know if the gas makes a difference but that tune made an incredible difference.  No more popping, backfiring, and smooth power through all the gears and a 15% gain in HP to boot.
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grc

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 03:32:53 PM »

Yesterday I tried some regular 87 octane fuel in my 2012 stock convertible to see if it made any difference in the backfiring I have been experiencing since it was new about 9,000 miles ago.  I was told at 5,000 that the wrench who test drove it couldn't hear anything (maybe that's his problem; he can't hear anything!!).  But he said there is definitely something wrong with the engine needs to be torn in half and everything inspected.  I was advised by some wheel at MoCo customer service that sometimes it helps to switch fuel for a little while and see if that helps.  Said they would warrant the engine no matter what happened if I decided to continue riding it or leave it at the dealer as they had recommended.  finally they told me shades of "nothing is wrong with your engine; it's just fine" and I was allowed to take it and return if I needed to.  I have since put about 4K on it and it doesn't run any different.  But as I said, I put about 3.5 gallons of regular on top of 1.5 g of premium (92) yesterday and it seemed to make a positive difference in the backfiring.  thought the manual demands 92 premium and was wondering what others put in and how they like the performance?   Pork.

Premium versus midgrade versus regular has nothing to do with backfiring, but it does affect detonation (pinging).  Octane ratings are strictly a measure of anti-knock performance as measured in a laboratory, and the reason Harley recommends 91 octane (minimum) is due to the design of the engine.  If you try to run a stock 110 on 87 octane, you will definitely encounter detonation when hot and under load.

Has the bike been tuned, or are you running the stock calibration?  Have you changed the pipes, or are they still stock?  Some aftermarket pipes will cause all sorts of popping, as will air leaks in the exhaust system.  Backfiring or popping in the exhaust can be tuned out, but you need a tuning device and someone who knows how to use it properly.  Based on your earlier posts about this dealership, I don't imagine they'd know how to tune it properly so I'd recommend you look for a good tuner while you're out looking for a better dealer.


Jerry
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porkypig

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 03:49:15 PM »

Jasray, what exactly did your dyno tuning consist of?  Any parts you had to purchase and have put on?  Not familiar with dyno tuning.  Do they just reprogram your own computer?  And what sort of $ should one expect to put out for this? 
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SteveO

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 11:27:51 PM »

I always run brand name 93 gas.

My 2012 was back firing was due to an exhaust leak on the small black (crossover pipe) exhaust pipe under the muffler, the muffler clamps were also loose and the exhaust gaskets at the manifold needed a couple of turns, after all was tight no more backfire.
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Jasray

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 11:33:48 PM »

Pork, I assume you have done some mods.  You have been posting here for quite a while and without going back and reading them I am going to assume you are running some kind of upgrade on your pipes and breather.  When you get those mods done, it is always good to also upgrade to a programable ignition module, these are made by HD and 3rd party vendors.  If you had your work done at HD they most likely sold you one of theirs.  After the techs install your mods they download a new ignition "map" that SHOULD work best with your selected upgrades, on your specific bike.  The problem is that the canned maps don't always work very well and you get a spitting, popping, rough running engine that doesn't deliver smooth horsepower through all the gears.  As long as you have a programable ignition system, a dyno tuner puts your bike on a dynomometer and runs the engine through all the gears under varying load conditions.  I didn't hang around to watch it but they tell me a good dyno test can take a couple of hours to do right.  In the end you have a custom ignition map specific to your bike and all the parts on it.  When done they will lock the program into your module and give you a backup (thumbdrive) for safekeeping.  I took mine to a tuner with great references I got off of this forum.  Total cost $400, and the bike runs better than new.  In the words of my son "dad your bike is even more awsomer".

Downside to a dyno tune...  Don't do it until you have done all your major mods (pipes, breather, ignition module, cylinders, heads, whatever) because if you do something major after your tune, you have to have to have it retuned.
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porkypig

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 01:15:16 AM »

As of right now, my bike is completely stock.  It has backfired from the getgo and do not understand why I should have to have new pipes, a special tuner and then have it dyno tuned.  My local dealer didn't build this bike, Moco did.  It has the original everything.  Like I said, I bought it new from a (non-local dealer in the state).  Nobody has ever read that I have changed pipes, changed heads, breather, or anything.  Bone-stock.  So, I guess that is the reason you recommend I get it dyn0 tuned and for no other reason.  I can see if I changed numerous things, I would have to have it tuned.  but only for that reason.  Otherwise, still not sure.  'but I still like the bike and not partial to any others just yet.
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Jasray

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 01:54:24 AM »

Pork, 

OK, I see your point.  Bone stock should be running right or the MoCo should make it right, no arguement from me on that.

JB
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Henrycm

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Re: Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2012, 11:15:25 PM »

I had a similar issue on my 11 and took it back to dealer.  They said they rebooted computer and redownloaded original programs.  Ran good after that.  I have since changed pipes and run dobeck EJT and have no problems so far.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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Willie D

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 10:31:14 PM »

Living here in SW Michigan, we have 87,89 & 93 octane. I have always used 89 in ALL of my bikes, and have never had any issues.

Even my dealer service advisor said he only runs 89. We normally don't get triple didgit temps, so it is not a problem. We did however
have a very HOT summer in the 90's and a few days of 100+ and still no problem. I use only Shell or Marathon and occasionally a tank
of BP when I am on the road.

My Mods are: Bassani Road Rage Long and Nightrider XiED's. The AFR is 13.9 - I have NO poping and plenty of torque. last check it was
112 T - 98 Hp

JMHO :nixweiss:
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SteveO

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 08:30:19 PM »

We can get 93 non ethanol gas here in Chattanooga, so that's my first choice.
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RCFlyer

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 01:10:11 PM »

Pork, In my area (upstate NY) they charge around $300.00 just for a dyno tune.  That's time and labor only, no parts.  I haven't done mine yet, but plan on doing it next spring.   I've done car engines and achieved fantastic results just by changing jetting, spark plugs and timing.  The same thing can be accomplished with a computer controlled engine.  Make sure you get someone who really knows what they're doing.  A bad tuner could make the bike worse than it already is.  Good luck.  It's well worth the money spent. I would definitely do any mods such as exhaust at the same time.
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Lever

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Re: what grade of fuel do you run and why?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 10:16:06 PM »

91-93 octane shell is 1st choice ... 
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