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[AMP]

I would be skeptical of this dyno report as well. I have read a number of different dyno sheets from other 124" on other forums and most fall in line @ 140/140. There was a recent posting on another forum with a Star Racing built 124" with B2 heads, 70mm Throttle Hog TB, S&S 640 easy start cams and the top rear wheel hp was 147.

I have seen custom built 120"s make HP in the 180's and street ridden 124's make the 160's...

[fukngitit]

Well I finally got it retuned and dynoed. With stock compression and stock heads, she made 107hp and 118tq. Not bad for bolt in cams and a good pipe. Its amazing what happens when you have somebody that knows how to tune a bike. BTW, cams are TW-777 and a D&D 2/1 with a sertpro

[Ohio phil]

Looks good fukngitit 

[greentp99]

OK... More interesting questions... Since I am a man without a dyno and since my day job includes hacking at code and message stuctures to integrate disimilar systems together, I like to try to see if what I can do to hack and create new modifications by manipulating numbers that would be threoretically in range from one map to the next.

So... I have map for a 2012 CVO Roadglide. It was tuned with a 205 software level which I have learned is a no-no for this bike. SO...How do I go about taking the money I spent on a tune and transposing it to another software level. What got me thinking about this was the Ol' Lady's bike... Her software level(the correct one) was retired and replaced with a new one. The SERT software informs you of this when you load up the older version... anyway... their recomendation is to just cut and paste the setting from the old to the new.. and blammo... all done... makes sense to me... so I did it and everithing seems fine... BUT.. it got me thinking about my problem with the 205 software level that has the been tuned to my bike and the 009 software level that I SHOULD be running... So whats the glitch... why not just cut and paste like I did before... Well... turns out I now have to determine if the values in the 205 can be correlated to the values in the 009 since the 205 is TPS to RPM and the 009 is MAP to RPM.. So... I figured match the data up as close as possible and see if the contours line up and then fill in gaps with the remaining surrounding values.

The results are the attached 205 and 009 AFR,FVE and RVE tables... Contours are not exact and I still have queastions as to whether a value of 100 in a TPS-RPM map is equal in a 009 MAP-RPM map. I am pretty sure that if my VE values are too low that I may actually be running leaner than I expect...

Also... I was wondering if I just run closed-loop in the 750-3500 RPM and 20-75 kPa will that be a safer configuraton since the ECM is using feed back as opposed to VE tables...

would love to talk about this stuff at length if interested...

 

 

[Unbalanced]

Depending on the tuner there are things in the background of the map that you can not see or are not able to see without decrypting all the code.   What tuner are you using today the Super Tuner or TTS Mastertune?    People use SERT to interchangibly to disquinguish what they are really running.

SERT -  original product of TTS when they were working with the motorcompany.   This ended in approx 07 and the TTS was born.
SERT Today means you have a dongle could be SESPT or it could be TTS.

I will give you an example on my 04 bike there are 3 maps that are compatible with the bike, unfortunately only 1 actually runs worth a damn due to the changes that are in the back ground of the maps.  Ended up doing 3 complete tunes after it was all said and done, because the first ones just didnt seem to get it to where we expected it.  Luckily third time was a charm.

IMO of course it seems like some are actual maps some are interpreted and some are someone winged it theoretically of course. 

I don't know how much Steve Cole will go into the background of the maps to explain what you can't see, but there are differences and they do matter.

[greentp99]

Thanks for the response... On this bike I am using a SESPT. I aslo run a TTS on my 08 Softail...  I will try to be more specific in the future.

Yeah.. there is definetly something different because since the 205 my cruise has been acting weird.

Maybe I have a case here to have the tuner retune my bike with the proper map...

either way... understanding the hidden code would be great to learn.

[Steve Cole]

Lvl 205 software is only for 2008 - 2009 DBW Touring bike with the larger more common O2 sensors. 2010 and newer use the smaller  or peanut sensors that are heated. While there are more than a few differences from a code stand point there is no easy way to translate one calibration to the other.

[greentp99]

Steve, do you have knowledge of any other code differences that are unique to the 009 map?

I reprogrammed the glide with the 009 and checked the cruise yesterday... the 205 map was definitely causing the issue. It makes me wonder what other changes there are under the covers...

Has anyone been able to read the data that is sent to the ECM? Is there any documentation for public consumption? Does the MOCO keep this info close to the vest? Does TTS provide any info?

My current AFR/LAMBDA table looks like this... RPMxMAP. I am thinking of making it closed looop to get better gas milage... Seems like the bike is sucking fuel right now... But I might give 3 or 4 tanks before I do that. Below the current table is what I plan on changing the table to. I am making a huge assumption that if I enter closed loop that my VE tables wont matter in those ranges.   

0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.923   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.923   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.923   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.923   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.897   0.885   0.885   0.876   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.869   0.863   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.863   0.863   0.856   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.863   0.863   0.856   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.863   0.863   0.856   0.856


Closed loop

0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.904   0.904   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.923   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.979   0.923   0.902   0.902   0.856
0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.904   0.897   0.885   0.885   0.876   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.869   0.863   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.863   0.863   0.856   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.863   0.863   0.856   0.856
0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.876   0.869   0.863   0.863   0.856   0.856

[Dead_Reckoning]

Does anyone have a Dyno Tune of an S&S EZStart Cam Set?
I am leaning towards and EZStart S&S Cam vs Drilling the Heads for Compression Releases.

DR

[Steve Cole]

Way to many things are different between the two operating systems. Those things are held close by both ourself's as well as anyone else who has done the work to figure it all out. OEM HD will not put a 009 calibration into the early DBW so I do not understand why SE allows it myself.

[greentp99]

Steve, Did you learn the OS differences via trial and error in the DYNO room or was there a source of information that you were able to compile to come to these conclusions... I am not asking for your work, I just dont, nor ever will, have a DYNO to run tests on and would like to fully educated. If there is a class I can take I will but I dont need a DYNO tunning class I need an architechure class on the ECM and supporting software. understanding the communication and ECM programing process is what I would like to learn.

Also.. Just to be clear... I had 205 cal on a 2012 DBW bike not an 009 on a early DBW...

[Steve Cole]

Sorry I got it backward but that software let's you do it both ways, not good in either case. No classes on it you just have to sit down and work at it with a the code and an engine to learn it all and there is plenty there that is for sure.

[Sharkbiker]

'13 CVO RG 110" with 255 SE cams, heads flowed by T-Man, larger intake and exhaust valves, stock pistons reshaped and 10.3:1 CR, adjustable push rods, Cometic head gasket, TTS tuner, Fat Cat 2 into 1 with ghost pipe. Heavy torque pull from 2,000 - 4,750 RPM.  See dyno attached.

[Unbalanced]

'13 CVO RG 110" with 255 SE cams, heads flowed by T-Man, larger intake and exhaust valves, stock pistons reshaped and 10.3:1 CR, adjustable push rods, Cometic head gasket, TTS tuner, Fat Cat 2 into 1 with ghost pipe. Heavy torque pull from 2,000 - 4,750 RPM.  See dyno attached.

Can you give us your impressions stock vs the work done?

What is the cold cranking compression without the releases?  Stock is in the 215 neighborhood.    Think your torque pull is over at 3750 not 4750 though  

Could you elaborate further on your comment that the stock pistons reshaped?  Does that mean a dish was put in them, or valve pockets were expanded or ?