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[DCFIREMANN]

Guys,
I appreciate all the information and the opinions that have been shared. And I'm just as concerned about crankshaft life as anyone. My '07 SERK went thru 3 or 4 until (after the warranty ran out) I finally had my stocker revamped by Darkhorse Crankworks -with Timken conversion. Now that crank is better than plain old bulletproof -it's machine gun proof! Very happy with it! But we mostly ride the CVO Ultra now days. At least until the lifter failure! And so far we haven't had any crank problems with it. (Knock on wood!)

It's a tough decision because I have a max. budget of about $8,000 for whatever I decide to do with this bike. If I build a 120, it looks like (according to the Screamin' Eagle Parts catalog) I couldn't start with my 110 crankcase, and would have to buy a new one. Then have it converted to Timken, and buy a Darkhorse crank. Not to mention buying heads, cylinders, pistons, selecting cams, etc. By the time I do all that (and more) and add labor to the mix, I'm concerned that I would be way over my budget.
 
If I go with the SE120R I think I can come in right around my budget because it comes with most of what I will need, and I won't have as large a bill for engine assembly labor. I am encouraged by Sadunbar's good results with his 120 too. Sounds like he uses his bike exactly the way my wife and I use our bike. And his mileage is as good or better than what we get with our relatively stock 110 (with A/C and Fullsac pipes only).

I'm still weighing the options and trying to estimate the costs for each approach, but it's a tough decision. If I don't go with an off the shelf 120R then I can probably only build a 110 of some sort... And then again, there's no replacement for displacement!
Still undecided... 

I guess I'm getting old. Why would you want to put the 120 in a TOURING BIKE?? I want something that is reliable. Well I guess weight is also an issue with the SEULTRA.

Harry you have not seen too many 120r failures because they don't have enough miles on them. If you do the 120r change your lifters right away. That is one of the weak points. Not only to quite it down but so it may live a little longer. 

Keep us posted either way you decide to go. Oh and good luck!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[mcflyer]

My Woods 555's lasted 4500 miles before the stock Harley lifter just stopped turning even though it never seized or showed any bearing damage at all.  The lifter tore up the cam and I changed to an after market lifter rather than the HD.  The 555 is not a radical cam and not all that different than the stock 255 cam so I don't think the cam caused it.  I run Mobil 1 so oil break down was not the issue.  A buddy of mine had a 96 built into a 110 with Fueling lifters and he had a lifter seize ruining his cam also.  So I'm not sure the aftermarket is the answer either. I look at the damaged lifter and still can't figure why it started skidding on the cam but a fellow engineer that works at Castrol said that sometimes the film strength of the oil is too strong and the lack of friction can allow the follower roller to stop turning and start skidding.  He said the hardness and surface finish of the materials has a lot to do with it how well the oil sticks to rotating parts inside an engine.  I still would not put in a cam with out changing lifters as i know of plenty of stock HD's that tore up liters and cams.

[bikerboy53]

My Woods 555's lasted 4500 miles before the stock Harley lifter just stopped turning even though it never seized or showed any bearing damage at all.  The lifter tore up the cam and I changed to an after market lifter rather than the HD.  The 555 is not a radical cam and not all that different than the stock 255 cam so I don't think the cam caused it.  I run Mobil 1 so oil break down was not the issue.  A buddy of mine had a 96 built into a 110 with Fueling lifters and he had a lifter seize ruining his cam also.  So I'm not sure the aftermarket is the answer either. I look at the damaged lifter and still can't figure why it started skidding on the cam but a fellow engineer that works at Castrol said that sometimes the film strength of the oil is too strong and the lack of friction can allow the follower roller to stop turning and start skidding.  He said the hardness and surface finish of the materials has a lot to do with it how well the oil sticks to rotating parts inside an engine.  I still would not put in a cam with out changing lifters as i know of plenty of stock HD's that tore up liters and cams.

mcflyer,
The hard facing on my lifter started coming apart. Once that happened it created a few low/rough places around the roller. One of those became large enough to cause the roller to stop rolling and start skidding or sliding. The failure didn't seem to be related to the oil at all -just the failure of the hard facing on the roller. Sounds like the S&S tappets are the only ones that seem reasonably reliable.

[HD Street Performance]

Not exactly, I think it was skidding first

[workingdan]

Workingdan,
I just had a stock lifter failure on my 2010 CVO Ultra yesterday (Sept. 29). It only has 25,000 miles on it. We were out for an easy ride with friends and the motor started making a bunch of racket! Took it right to the dealership and they tore it down. The hard facing on the roller of the front (exhaust) lifter started coming apart. The metal particles took out both camshafts and the oil pump. The crank *looks* OK, but it's hard to tell where all the metal might have gone...

Now I'm debating between a slight upgrade/rebuild, or maybe an SE120R. The rebuild would be less expensive, but the 120 might be more fun -and we tow a trailer a lot. The bike is our main source of recreation, so the BSR says to do whatever I want. Gotta love that girl!  It's easier to make these decisions when she lays down the law.  What to do, what to do??

[HD Street Performance]

These threads do not always work real well when another jumps in and says something like "my build..." or "maybe a 120r..."
Sorry for being part of that.

Your question is simple
The motor comes with INA skip bearing caged needle bearings. INA is a great company with super products but this bearing is "medium duty"
Problem is the CVO has springs and valvetrain weight that doesn't need anything "medium duty" The SE Timkin inner bearings are a much better choice as they are "heavy duty" and have a full compliment of needles for a higher load carrying capacity and longer mean time to failure., OK

[bikerboy53]

Sorry I jacked the thread. I thought there were some good answers about the bearings on the first page. And I thought there might be some interest to hear about lifter problems while the motor is apart, but I admit I got carried away with the 120R stuff. Sorry!

(And thanks to those who answered my 120 questions!)