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[ace4059]

Was talking to my service manager yesterday. He said that the MOCO had issued in writing NOT TO USE 75W(or heavier) synthetic gear oil  in the transmission of the new 6 speed transmissions. He said they recommend Syn3 or Formula Plus. He had  no explaination as to why, but he said if you had a transmission failure and the MoCO requested the dealer to send in the defective tranny and they tested the fluid and you were running heavy weight gear oil then the MOCO might not repair it under warranty.

Has anyone else heard of this?

[grc]

Was talking to my service manager yesterday. He said that the MOCO had issued in writing NOT TO USE 75W(or heavier) synthetic gear oil

[VAZHOG]

My 06 Owners Manual says Syn3 of course  

[ace4059]

'07 owner's manual calls for syn3 in all 3 holes. I am going to put Mobil 1 Vtwin 20W 50 in all 3 holes at my 1000 mi service.

On one of the Syn 3 threads, someone mentioned that they had read that the heavy gear oils cause too much friction in the tranny and rob the bike of horsepower and torque. Don't know if this is true or if this is the reason the MoCo is saying not to put 75W or thicker gear lube in the 6 speeds. My dealer said one of his employees had a new '07 non CVO and he was running the 75-90W gear oil and when they got the memo from the MOCO the employee immediately drained his and put in 20W-50 in the tranny. They said they don't understand why the MOCO is saying this, but to be safe the dealer recommends we run the weight the MOCO says. It doesnt have to be Syn3 or Formula +
it just has to be the lighter weight oil. I have read on other threads that several other people are running Mobil 1 Vtwin 20W 50 in all 3 holes w/ good results so that is what I have decided on, that way if something happens to the tranny the MOCO can't blame it on too heavy transmission fluid.

[SPIDERMAN]

You know with the new 07 RG on the way, I've been thinking about this. I run AMSOIL in all three holes in my 03 SERK and I swear by it. I feel it makes the engine run cooler and everything run quieter. I had been considering running Redline in the trans after reading Hubbard's posts about how much he liked it. Now comes the BUT part. If the MoCo recommends Syn 3 and I have a 7 year warranty on the new RG,

[Midnight Rider]

Spider...like Jerry said, I don't think there's any harm in running the heavier syns in the tranny...I personally am running Mobil I VTWIN in all three.  Frankly, theres' just too much evidence supporting the fact that Syn3 is just not as good as some of the other products.  I think the Syn3 becomes a real issue if you are running in high ambient temps like occur here in my part of the country so often in the summer.  I can personally attest to the fact that my motor runs cooler (oil temp), and quieter since I changed over to Mobil I....I am also running it in the Vrod with the same noticeable improvements in shifting, valve train noise, etc.  So, I don't run the heavier oils just out of personal preference to keep things simple, and some advice I received from a good friend in the oil business.  But I'll never switch back to Syn3, and would take the MOCO to the mat about that issue if it ever came up.  If they're saying not to put the heavier oil in the tranny and to use the same in all three, fine by me.  But they would have a hell of a time with the argument that Mobil or Amsoil is not at least as good, if not superior, to their product.

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about those...

[SPIDERMAN]

Couldn't agree with you more TC, but my question is. Do you think that Syn 3 is inferior to the point where it could be the cause of a mechanical failure ?

[Twolanerider]

Couldn't agree with you more TC, but my question is. Do you think that Syn 3 is inferior to the point where it could be the cause of a mechanical failure ?

Brian, relative to some extreme they'll all fail.

[Midnight Rider]

Couldn't agree with you more TC, but my question is. Do you think that Syn 3 is inferior to the point where it could be the cause of a mechanical failure ?

I agree with what 2ln said.  Rjob switched over to Mobil I VTWIN after his run back from CC through some high ambient temps because he was hearing all kinds of weird noises from the top of his motor.  Since switching he reports a better running engine all the way around.  I know I have better oil temp/pressure than when I was running syn3 the first 1K, and it was June when I picked the bike up and put the first miles on her...translated, that means it was in the low 90's here, and when I was in traffic, the top of the engine was making some racket.  After changing over, we've had temps near 100 off and on all summer, and better sounds coming from the engine.

I just think it's not a gamble worth taking.

[grc]

'07 owner's manual calls for syn3 in all 3 holes. I am going to put Mobil 1 Vtwin 20W 50 in all 3 holes at my 1000 mi service.

On one of the Syn 3 threads, [highlight]someone mentioned that they had read that the heavy gear oils cause too much friction in the tranny and rob the bike of horsepower and torque.[/highlight] Don't know if this is true or if this is the reason the MoCo is saying not to put 75W or thicker gear lube in the 6 speeds. My dealer said one of his employees had a new '07 non CVO and he was running the 75-90W gear oil and when they got the memo from the MOCO the employee immediately drained his and put in 20W-50 in the tranny. They said they don't understand why the MOCO is saying this, but to be safe the dealer recommends we run the weight the MOCO says. It doesnt have to be Syn3 or Formula +
it just has to be the lighter weight oil. I have read on other threads that several other people are running Mobil 1 Vtwin 20W 50 in all 3 holes w/ good results so that is what I have decided on, that way if something happens to the tranny the MOCO can't blame it on too heavy transmission fluid.

ace,

Please see this post and thread: http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1153674503/37#37

[RATKING]

I cannot answer all the questions on this controversy regarding Syn 3 oil, but I do have several observations and questions to add to the mix.

First off, in the old days (my exposure deals with the Panheads and Shovelheads), you used Harley Dino Oil in all 2 (two) holes.  It was available in straight 50 and 60 weight.  It was recommended in the transmission (hole 1) and the engine (hole 2).  There was no separate primary oil as the primary and engine fed off the same oil supply.  For the record, it was great knowing that your engine oil was full of clutch particulate and that you were relying on a wound horsehair filter to get the chit out.  Also note, that the chain driving the rear wheel was also oiled by a jet feeding engine oil onto it.

Secondly, I believe it was the 2nd or 3rd year of the Evolution motor, that Harley broke out the primary from the engine oiling, and sealed it.  That kept the chit from the clutch group in the primary and did not mix it with the engine oil.  That was long overdue.  Also, when the bike sat for a long time, the engine oil from the elevated oil tank would no longer leak paste the check valve into the primary and soak your clutch pack.  When this happened, you would literally have to disassemble the clutch, clean everything, soak the friggin clutch discs in gas for a couple of days and use brake pad cleaner to get the oil out.  Then reassemble.  Ever experience a grabby Harley clutch?  The clutch got oil submerged!   Somewhere in this timeframe Harley offered a semi-synthetic primary case oil (so the clutch would not slip), and a full synthetic gear oil.  I have some of these containers with Harley part nos. somewhere.  But, it was still Dino oil for the engine, although the Evolution motor used a 20-50 viscosity instead of the old 50 and 60 weights.  

Finally the Twin Cam.  All Twin Cam bikes were not shipped with Syn 3 oil.  My 2003 Anniversary Fatboy bike had regular Dino oil in it.  The dealer made a big deal about upgrading to Syn 3 at my 1000-mile checkup.  My 2003 SERK had Syn 3 in the motor, but not in the Primary or the transmission.  My SERK transmission shifts real slick.  When I got my 2005 SE Fat Boy, it had Syn 3 in all 3 holes.  My SE Fat Boy transmission shifted clunky.  I broke the Bike in, and was still unhappy with the transmission feel.  I substituted Mobil 1 70-90-weight full synthetic gear oil (I did not think the 90-140 weight was necessary).  The transmission immediately smoothed up, and finding neutral was so much easier.  I have read the other testimonials on this site where people have swapped out the Syn 3 with Amsoil, Red Line, etc. in the transmission and all expressed great improvement.  Believe me it is true.

Conclusions:

[ch61623] Get Syn 3 out of your transmissions.  A dedicated full synthetic gear oil works much better.

[ch61623] You can run Syn 3 in the primary just fine.  It is only oiling the primary chain and that is
    fine. I would not run a full synthetic in the primary due to the possibility of clutch slippage.
    As I stated earlier, Harley

[grc]

....................................

[pontiac621]

they can not mah\ke you run syn 3 because if they do they have to gine you the oil. a buddy of mine owns a shop and he knows the law.

[RJ749]

Couldn't agree with you more TC, but my question is. Do you think that Syn 3 is inferior to the point where it could be the cause of a mechanical failure ?

I changed to Mob 1 after CC because my tranny was grinding like a old ice crusher on compression at normal and slow speeds coming of the mountians in 90 degree weather.

When Canuck and I were in Nelson with igofar and BT, we ran in similar heat and mountain terrain as well as one hell of a long descent into Trail, BC and the tranny never once even whispered out of tune.  The only thing I had done differently between CC and Nelson was change to all Mob 1.  I'm a believer [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]  

Smooth and quiet has to be better than an old coffee can full of bolts rolling down the hill.

[Midnight Rider]

I changed to Mob 1 after CC because my tranny was grinding like a old ice crusher on compression at normal and slow speeds coming of the mountians in 90 degree weather.

Sorry, Roger....I mis-remembered (is that a word?) your reason for changing.  Glad things are running better for you now though.