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[Simpleman1025]

So would anybody recommend tuning it themselves or have the HD service department do it. I went in for a service, they were trying to sell it to me hard. I am looking at using the "SE Pro Super Tuner" because I have plenty of warranty left and do not want to jeopardize it. I'm leaning towards the "Fullsac X-pipe", of course the service department recommends V&H duals. I like how the stock SE slip-ons look like so maybe replacements baffles from "Fullsac" or real
CFR's. What is the opinion out there?

Just a note that I just noticed this thread so I reported here too.

[grc]

So would anybody recommend tuning it themselves or have the HD service department do it. I went in for a service, they were trying to sell it to me hard. I am looking at using the "SE Pro Super Tuner" because I have plenty of warranty left and do not want to jeopardize it. I'm leaning towards the "Fullsac X-pipe", of course the service department recommends V&H duals. I like how the stock SE slip-ons look like so maybe replacements baffles from "Fullsac" or real
CFR's. What is the opinion out there?

Just a note that I just noticed this thread so I reported here too.

Don't fall for the false sales pitch, the SEPST is just as liable to jeopardize your warranty as any other tuning solution.  If you prefer something from TTS MasterTune or Power Commander (PV) or whomever, then do what you want and don't let a dealer lie to you to sell their product.

If you are interested in the Fullsac pipe and baffles, contact them and ask about the TTS they sell with a map suited for your bike and their pipes.  Many people on the site have gone that way and seem to be more than satisfied.  If you follow directions with the TTS and save the original stock map first, you can easily return the ECM to stock before taking the bike in for service.  That way there is nothing in the ECM they could possibly use to justify screwing with your warranty coverage.  The SEPST does not have that option.  The dealer trying to sell that SEPST so hard is not likely to explain all that to you.

Jerry

[hdaliaconis]

Don't fall for the false sales pitch, the SEPST is just as liable to jeopardize your warranty as any other tuning solution.  If you prefer something from TTS MasterTune or Power Commander (PV) or whomever, then do what you want and don't let a dealer lie to you to sell their product.

If you are interested in the Fullsac pipe and baffles, contact them and ask about the TTS they sell with a map suited for your bike and their pipes.  Many people on the site have gone that way and seem to be more than satisfied.  If you follow directions with the TTS and save the original stock map first, you can easily return the ECM to stock before taking the bike in for service.  That way there is nothing in the ECM they could possibly use to justify screwing with your warranty coverage.  The SEPST does not have that option.  The dealer trying to sell that SEPST so hard is not likely to explain all that to you.

Jerry

 

[110tHunDer]

 
Tell them to read the box the SEPST comes in.  There are warranty implication warnings all over it that are impossible to miss.

[havenolife]

I pretty sure that you can take this ecm and tuner it will work ok

[HDGearHead]

  on the Fullsac X pipe and CVO muffler cores.  Excellent performance, sound, support and price.

Another side benefit is that it maintains the EPA markings on the muffler cans in the event that you reside in a state like CA.

Never ride with a half sac. Insist on Fullsac performance!

Give Steve a call.

[08glide]

I agree with grc. don't let dealer try to power persuade you to their product. example- I bought my 12cvoseuc used with 6k on it, 3 mos old. car dealer sales rep bought it, rode to calif. & back then I bought it. " THE DEALER" put a se tuner on bike & removed the cat.when 1st owner had bike new. now they want to sell me an esp. warranty is all in how the dealer perceives you as "their" customer. they do the work<it's ok. you do the work, or another shop, like steve at ful sac. & they void warranty ( alot out of spite). you're at their mercy (&moco) on warranties. moco can & will void warranty as they see fit.had a couple who had big falling out with local dealer over warranty issue on brakes, on a new trike. dealer says customer changed something. after words were exchanged, dealer ask them to leave property & to never come back on property.

[Fullsac Performance]

As has been already mentioned the Master Tune or the SE Super Tuner could void the factory warranty. However, many dealers tend to look the other way simply because they make money doing warranty work. The SE Street Tuner won't void your warranty but it offers very basic ECM tuning capabilities.  

I've used the x-pipe on two bikes and the Master Tune on three previous bikes. I have the Fullsac 1.75 inch cores and the x-pipe on my present bike. This configuration works very well to increase power and lower engine heat. For reasons I've previously explained in this thread this time I've chosen to go with the SE Super Tuner.

[font=Verdana]Either tuner allows you to save the stock factory map [/font]and both systems are reasonably easy to use for downloading existing maps and in my case some basic tuning. Either system will allow a good mechanic to fine tune your bike on a dyno as long as the shop already has the software added to their computer system that will match your tuner of choice.

Also worth mentioning is that there are several other good tuning systems available and some that I've read about on other recent threads in this forum that seem to be more user friendly than either the M/T or the SE RT for novices like me.

The bottom line is that you do what's best for you.            

Jerry
Are you saying the newest version of the SE Super tuner sold by Harley will allow you to save a copy of the original factory calibration and reload it back into the ECM after custom tuning has been done? When you reload the stock calibration does it leave any trace of evidence that the ECM has been tampered with? I was always told this feature was not available with the Harley product. Just trying to learn and keep up with all this new and constantly changing technology from Harley.

Steve

[Fullsac Performance]

Steve, I've found conflicting information regarding being able to save and reload the factory setting with a SE ST. Below is one suggested way to do it. In addition any HD dealership can reload the factory calibration.  
 
Connect Computer to VCI to the bike.
Open software.
Turn on Main ignition.
Turn on Thumb switch.
Click on Tuning Fork Icon.
There will be 2 tabs at the top of the page Stored Calibration and VCI.
Click on the VCI tab.
When the computer is properly connected to the bike and the ignition and thumb switches are turned on you will see the Load from VCI button activated.
Click on this button and the map that has been captured on the VCI will be downloaded to your computer and you can save it to wherever you store your maps.

If the dealer reloads your stock calibration, doesn't that cancel out the " I didn't modify my bike" story ?

Steve

[Steve Cole]

Steve, I've found conflicting information regarding being able to save and reload the factory setting with a SE ST. Below is one suggested way to do it. In addition any HD dealership can reload the factory calibration.  
 
Connect Computer to VCI to the bike.
Open software.
Turn on Main ignition.
Turn on Thumb switch.
Click on Tuning Fork Icon.
There will be 2 tabs at the top of the page Stored Calibration and VCI.
Click on the VCI tab.
When the computer is properly connected to the bike and the ignition and thumb switches are turned on you will see the Load from VCI button activated.
Click on this button and the map that has been captured on the VCI will be downloaded to your computer and you can save it to wherever you store your maps.

Since this was brought up again we did a little test for you all with the current SEST or SE Street Tuner. It does NOT save the original calibration. It allows you to install one of the canned tunes that it comes with and saves THAT to the VCI. It also writes to the ECM that the ECM has been tuned to non stock calibration ID. Once the ECM has this done (non stock calibration ID) it cannot be taken back out of the ECM. You are also allowed to modify the VE tables. It still limits the amount you can adjust in the VE table to +/- 10 from the original number outside the emissions test area and +/- 4 in the emisssions test area but does give limited adjustment to the VE tables only. Any other adjustments are not allowed.

Hope this clears up what it does and doesn't do.

[Steve Cole]

Really....saving the original map has evolved into a moot point. How many riders put their bike back to 100% stock condition before selling it or go though that before taking it in for warranty work? Most dealers will do warranty work as long as they can actually get access to the tuner that was downloaded to the ECM. If they can't then your stuck with the added cost of transporting a disabled bike to a dealer that can.           

•Featuring improved electronics to enhance reliability and improve communication between the vehicle and the computer.
•The hardware and software in the Super Tuner makes EFI tuning easier with dozens of innovative tuning enhancements.
•Super Tuner is available in 8 languages and is compatible with Windows XP and Vista, Windows 7.
•The Super Tuner includes an ergonomically improved Vehicle Communication Interface (VCI) box.
•The new VCI allows USB connectivity to your PC and contains on board memory for a full 15 minutes of data recording, tracking up to 26 data variables. Data recording is conveniently activated with a push of a button. Cable Kit provides all necessary connections between Motorcycle, VCI, and PC / Laptop.
•The Super Tuner Software is easy to use with a large icon layout, compatible with touchscreen laptops, the ability to work in 4 windows (tables) and enhanced help tools.
•Data and Tuning functions are combined into a single application, ensuring you are only 2 clicks away from any tuning function. With a click of a button, the software automatically connects to the internet and updates to the most current version as well as retrieves the newest calibrations developed by professional Screamin Eagle calibrators.
•Software contains built-in model recognition that filters calibrations, listing those that are applicable to your model. State-of-the art graphing capabilities illustrate tables clearly, highlighting areas for improvement, and are fully scalable and customizable. Additional features include editable calibration text, custom note fields, drag and drop, cut and paste, and printing capability.

For the record we did the test just to confirm what the previous poster stated. As we thought what he had stated was in error.

"•Software contains built-in model recognition that filters calibrations, listing those that are applicable to your model. State-of-the art graphing capabilities illustrate tables clearly, highlighting areas for improvement, and are fully scalable and customizable. Additional features include editable calibration text, custom note fields, drag and drop, cut and paste, and printing capability. "

This is my favorite quote on the Super Tuner as you can put the wrong type calibration into near any bike with it and it gets done all the time. It doesn't stop you from doing it in any way.

[Steve Cole]

Our customer service is second to none, but we are not perfect. That said I provided a test to give a proper answer to what some thought was how something worked, no more no less. The fact that you want to twist that simple test into something it's not, is yours to deal with.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=post;quote=1120148;topic=76990.90;num_replies=96;sesc=ddba0b746e84ab95e4e92afb3a444959



Just because I offer my opinion what makes it any less valid than you offering yours?

[Steve Cole]

Unfounded accusations and misguided assumptions never equate to good customer service. I simply offered my opinion based on personal customer experience. Unless a motorcycle shop already uses your product it is useless if access to the ECM is required for any service work. And saving a factory map with the intend of turning a modified engine back to stock has evolved into something that offers little to no value.         
               

 

Let's start with "Unfounded accusations" I have no idea where you came up with this as we did the test and provided the results so nothing was unfounded in any way.

Next "misguided assumptions" again we did testing nothing more so there was NO assumptions, simple facts presented.

Now you say that our product is "useless to access the ECM" That statement is clearly a bunch of BS, as you clearly have done no testing. Our product only blocks people from reprogramming the ECM, clearing the AFV's and reprogramming the TSSM. Every other function including reading trouble codes works just the same as it did when it was stock. If you need to reprogram the ECM or TSSM if our instructions were followed to start with it can be done with one addition step from stock HD operation, To clear the AFV's simple use our product and it will do it for you but it to can be done with the dealer tools with the one additional step, so we left no one out here. For those that did not bother to follow the directions we also have a way to get you back to stock as well, it does takes more work. So a lot of thought and trouble went into what we did so we could offer service to all of our customers.This is just the type of misguided information that gets going on the internet and then people start to think it's true when it is not the case at all.

If as you say turning a modified engine back to stock has little to no value then why would it be a problem that we prevented someone from removing the modified tune for the modified engine? Since we stop that from happening it's a nice safety feature! So now were down to a TSSM replacement which does happen once in a great while and as I said before we allow that to happen with an extra step involved, so it appears you are the one making misguided assumptions here.

[Steve Cole]

There is no substitute for hands on rider experience with a product such as yours. Quite by accident I discovered a flaw in your system that cost me time and that money I didn't need to spend. When I required service and tuning at a HD dealer the mechanic was unable to help because he could not access the ECM since they only use SE software. And he claimed to have corrupted a new SEST when he tried to download it.

Riders need to be aware of this type of information before laying out hard earned cash for any product. It shouldn't be hard to accept rider feedback regarding your product. As a former three time customer whom you've now chosen to completely alienate, you're the one who loses. Sadly, this has deteriorated from a civilized exchange of customer experiences to just plain silly. And this is one former customer who will never purchase or recommend your product to anyone.

End of conversation. Have a nice day!            

Now the real truth comes out. So the real deal here is your upset because you did not follow directions and are looking at our product as the issue, when it's not. Hands on rider experience is one thing but the fact that you or your mechanic didn't follow the directions doesn't make the product flawed. Accepting feedback is always welcome here but let's not confuse the issue with saying the product is flawed because you  made a mistake and did not follow instructions.

You have swapped stories three times so far in this thread but let me answer your latest claim. Had you done as the directions told you to do making the copy of the original calibration all one needed to do was reload that and the bike would have been back to where they could have used a different tuner on it. One simple little step and all this could have been avoided. I'm sorry that you or your mechanic didn't do that.

[grc]

 

I have a question.  Just how often do you suppose it would be necessary for a dealership, in the course of normal service work, to modify anything in your ECM?  I'll be happy to tell you the answer, almost never.  They can and should access the DTC information whenever they have reason to connect to the data port, otherwise they don't have any business screwing with the calibration file.

If what you were saying way back in the beginning was that you wanted something in your tune tweaked while on the road, then yes that would require you to have your VCI and access to the software, be it on your laptop or at a place that uses TTS.  But once again that brings up a question.  Once you tune the bike properly, why would you stop at just any old dealership and let them screw with your tune?  If the bike was running fine and it suddenly developed a problem, it isn't the tune.  The map didn't suddenly change on it's own.  And it definitely isn't necessary to constantly be tweaking the map.  The ECM does a pretty good job of making it's own corrections based on sensor input without constant tinkering by others.

Anyhow, I have no horse in this race so I really don't care.  It would be nice if we could move on however.

JMHO - Jerry