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[Toddster]

I can get better numbers from doc in mineola fl with his set up tts tuner tman porting the heads and fullsac back to muffler and changing to 2" cores doc says 125 torque 107 hp

 dealer claims he can give me w hd stage III set up and vance n hines all the way back and se259 cams.
Dealer says heads come ported at factory and is $1000 cheaper than doc. Dealer says 114 torqu 109 hp.

My concern is service. Im worried anytime i have a diagnostic or service issue any hd dealer is gonna tell me the non harley tuner is either the problem or makes it harder to fix?.

Also, im wondering if they will be able to remap the tts tuner?

Lastly, is the extra 11 lbs torque doc says he can get me really noticable???

[dlaws01]

Let's see . . . Doc or H-D dealership?  Is there really a question of which is better?       My vote is with Doc!

[Toddster]

Ok. What about the concern of diagnostics n repairs i asked about in my original post?
 I live too far away to have doc do any service work and have heard some guys say that dealers give em a hard time when they have something other than a se tuner on bike.

[grc]

I can get better numbers from doc in mineola fl with his set up tts tuner tman porting the heads and fullsac back to muffler and changing to 2" cores doc says 125 torque 107 hp

 dealer claims he can give me w hd stage III set up and vance n hines all the way back and se259 cams.
Dealer says heads come ported at factory and is $1000 cheaper than doc. Dealer says 114 torqu 109 hp.

My concern is service. Im worried anytime i have a diagnostic or service issue any hd dealer is gonna tell me the non harley tuner is either the problem or makes it harder to fix?.

Also, im wondering if they will be able to remap the tts tuner?

Lastly, is the extra 11 lbs torque doc says he can get me really noticable???

First, I think you're comparing apples to oranges.  You can't just go by peak numbers, you need to look at the total picture.  What bike are you talking about, a relatively light Softail or a heavy Touring model?  How do you normally ride, low rpm fully loaded or higher rpm?  What cam is Doc proposing (those numbers suggest something like the stock 255 or a similar stump puller grind)?  What independent reviews have you gotten for the quality of that dealership's work and tuning?  Does the dealer plan to actually dyno tune the finished product, or just load the map Harley provides for that 110 upgrade kit? 

As for the service issue, that is impossible to answer.  Some dealers will use anything they can dream up to avoid having to fix anything.  Other's don't give a diddly what product you used.  If you use the TTS MasterTune then you need to follow the instructions and save the original stock map.  Then you can reinstall that map before taking the bike to the dealer if you think it will be an issue.  I imagine Doc would be happy to save the map for you and even show you how to reload the stock map. 

Once you have the TTS map installed the dealer will not be able to load a different map using either the Digital Tech software or a SEPST.  You would first need to reinstall the stock map with your TTS VCI and software.  That subject has been beaten to death around here lately, but the short answer is that it is very rare for a dealer to need to load a new calibration to fix a problem.  The TTS map does not keep the dealer from performing normal maintenance and diagnostic functions like checking the diagnostic trouble codes or anything else not directly related to the calibration file (map).

Have you bothered to ask Doc about your concerns?

Jerry

[Toddster]

Thanks for your reply. My bike is  a 2012 se cvo street glide. I like to ride about 3000 rpm.  Doc is recommending leaving stock 255 cam in.

Dealer plans to dyno bike.

I did not address these specific comcerns w doc cuz i am looking for objective 3 rd party opinions.

[HOGMIKE]

Ok. What about the concern of diagnostics n repairs i asked about in my original post?
I live too far away to have doc do any service work and have heard some guys say that dealers give em a hard time when they have something other than a se tuner on bike.

Kinda answers your question, huh?
IF you use your local dealer to service and maintain your bike don't you think you'd want to develop a good relationship with them?
SOME dealers actually have a wrench or two that can properly maintain your new (under warranty?) bike.
SOME of us don't use the dealer at all except to buy a oil seal or gasket once in awhile.
Narrow down what YOU want and how far you are willing to go to make YOU comfortable.
It's a pretty personal relationship most of us have with our bike.
JMHO
 

[Steve Cole]

Do you plan on having the dealer maintain your bike? If so that may play a part in your decision but I really find it funny that HD sold the unit developed and manufactured by TTS for near 8 years and it was OK but now since they are selling a knock off it's not OK. The truth is it really doesn't make a difference as many HD dealerships worldwide are selling and installing TTS Units. HD can and does use any excuse to get out of warranty and if that is what your worried about you should not modify your bike at all as they will VOID the warranty for using the SESPT too.

Now if what you want is a good running bike that will make you happy DOC's the winner there.

[Doc 1]

T-Man and I are working on the 110'' head using the exsisting 255 cam to get a good usuable torque and carry the torque to the right which the 255 fails to do in your stock CVO 110. We are designing, or should I say T-Man is designing the port and valve size.....I'm requesting what I want from the head. Already we have accomplished 125tq/101hp, my goal is 128/105 or better using the stock 255 cam. The power as of now is 110tq at 2200 rpm and 125 at 3000 rpm....the 125tq carrys from 3000 to 4000 rpm and the tq stays above 110 to 4750 rpm. We are gaining, as you can see, and this is GOOD USUABLE power unlike most cams on the market today. Compression is 10.0 with a .030 head gasket.
There is no doubt we will reach our goal in the very near future.
Doc

[Toddster]

Thanks to all for your comments. I am going with Doc. I felt very comfortable talking to him on the phone and it is impossible to develop a relationship at my dealership as the employee turnover is staggering.

Knowing that the tts tuner does not affect the dealers diagnostic process is a big help. Some of us love to ride but just dont have any mechanical ability or knowledge. Bless those of you that do and are willing to share.

[dlaws01]

Wise decision. You won't be disappointed.    Now it's just getting there!

[cptdenny]

Todd, we already communicated through emails earlier. You'll be 100% satisfied with Doc's work. Doc will make sure you're a happy camper. It's in his nature. Rocky will keep you company as Doc tweaks every possible HP & TQ out of your engine. He'll spend a great deal of time on your fuel map alone. Your bike will run like a Swiss watch once he's done. 

[FLSTFI Dave]

My vote is Doc.

I live over 600 miles away, and that is who tuned my bike!

[Sharkbiker]

I took my 110" CVO RG '13 Anniversary to Doc's.  Before taking it to Doc's I had installed the Fat Cats 2 into 1 with the Thundermax tuner.  It was a dog! Lots of backfire when decelerating and not much get up and go. My mileage had dropped from the low 40's to the low 30's. Doc sent the heads to TMan and had the heads flowed with larger intake and exhaust valves and milled the heads .062.  Then Doc installed the TTS Master tuner and a Cometic gasket and adjustable push rods. Kept the SE 255 cams.  Now I'm at 124.77 foot pounds of torque from 2,000 RPM and it doesn't drop off until around 4,750 RPM. Since I ride in the 2,000-5,000 RPM range it is perfect for me.  Pulls hard and is real fast.  Mileage is at 40 when I ride conservatively to moderate. My feeling is when you take it to the dealer you are paying $90+/hr. for a technician that they are paying around $12/hr to learn on your bike. Doc gives you a thumb drive with the old ECM program in it as well as the new TTS program so that if the stealership ever needs to work on the alarm system or other electronics that require the original ECM program to work on then you have the ability to allow the stealership to do their work and reload the performance tune back into the ECM via the TTS.  Having a bike that runs like it is supposed to is the best form of added reliability. Another factor is that when Doc was done the compression was only 10.13:1 so again, added reliability by not getting too high a compression ratio.  If you install the SE259 cams you lose low end torque as a trade off to high end torque so your powerband is now starting around 3,000+RPM to 6,000RPM and your compression will have to be in the upper 10's. Bottom line is that unless you are racing your bike and need the high torque curve and are willing to lose the off-the-line torque then the SE255's with the head work get you everything you want.

[willyB]

Just goes to show you what headwork can do for a motor! Learned that lesson years ago with my hot rod buddies. Installed cams, intake, big carb and it was faster but no what was expected. Slapped on a set of real heads and WOW!

Love the performance curves on your setup!

[Rio]

   Wish we had a Doc in Michigan!  New TTS dealer, going to try them when my Kerker Stouts arrive?