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[Heatwave]

It's been brought to my attention that I WAS being a dick.  OK.  I was....  I have to admit that I feel a PV can get the job done.  I also feel that a PV can end up being easier to use for a bike owner DIY type of guy.  I have also, always have said, that, at the end of the day, if someone wants a bit more, then TTS is the way to go.  These have been my stated opinions for awhile now.

Member Heatwave brought out a bad side in me and I apologize.  Some of what HE says isn't ringing true to me and my own personal experiences from the TTS product.

So...  to the OP, please buy a pipe instead of welding it up.  That really does help and make a difference.  Also, to the OP, you need to make a decision.... what to do about fuel.  Your choices range from installing some kind of XIED product, to a hang on the bike fooler box, like Power Commander, Cobra, V&H fooler, etc, to having an actual flash tuner.  OP, I recommend that you bite the bullet and spend the extra money on a Flash Tuner.  There is more to it than just 'fuel', for a smoother running bike.  PV costs a little more than TTS.  If you buy a Fullsac head pipe you can get the TTS WITH a base map already to go for your set up.  You could ALSO go with Fuelmoto and buy his pipe with a PV that also has a base map that should work.

WIth either system, you can run the base map, or tune the bike a little further.  Not too awful hard to do, actually. I recommend you do so.

What this all is, and all of us have to find out eventually is that THIS is THE HArley Tax.....  We touch ANYTHING on the stock engine, we simply HAVE to address the fuel issues.  No way around that, because the bike, as it sits, simply cannot overcome the calibration that comes with a stock bike.  So... we ALL have done something.  That sucks, but it's the facts of life.

Yes, I like the TTS better.  I AM a fanboi, I guess.  At the end of the day, the TTS will have the better tune.  This IS from experience.  But, I will also say that if you wish some 'hand holding' on this expense, PV has you covered, too.

A point was brought up and also needs discussing...  A complete pro tune is anywhere from like $700 to $1000, and that price WILL include the tuner.  It IS a lot, but you ONLY need mess with it all again if you change anything on the bike later, like cams.  Afterwards, another tune should be like $3-400ish for a new tune when you do do more work.

Do you have any Pro tuners around?  NOT Dealers that tune(except for Gail's in KC... they do good work tuning), but an Indy shop that specializes in tuning?  If so...  go ask THAT GUY what HE likes to tune with.  Follow HIS lead and not ours.  I can think of a tuner in Ohio near upper Sandusky.  Roeder Racing.  What they do is sell a PV tuning license and NOT the PV itself.  They will do a full tune for $500. Also, there are a couple tuners in Mich, I think are quite good, too.  Take the bike to one of those guys, leave the bike for 3-4 days, come back and get the bike, and simply RIDE it.

And... FWIW....  If it were me, back in the day...  I would do a complete Stage 1 with new cams, tune it, and call it a day.  Doing just this will give the bike the power it SHOULD have and it will last a lifetime.  A lifetime of fun and enjoyment and....  no stress like this crap, to you.

Be accountable. How you act towards others is your own responsibility. What you write, how you write it and who you write it to is your responsibility and no one else's. PERIOD.

[hd-dude]

Guys, These threads always seem to get heated as we are passionate about the favored devices we tune with and or use. I like the factual info that comes from them and it is good information for the members here.

Lets keep it within the rules of posting and it can keep going, otherwise it will get locked down. Personal attacks will not be allowed!


PS... I only recommend the TTS

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Yep.  Bought a dyno and rented a shop.  At work?  I go dead in the summer and winter work is like 80 hr weeks.  So, this fills the summer gap, tuning bikes.  Just an outgrowth of all of those arguing threads, going to Jim's house, etc.

I have direct link.  I use two Innovate LC1s to tune with instead of the TS WEGO.  I have tuned three bikes with TTS, now, and one with PV.  Got another PV bike coming Saturday.  117er.

It sure is fun!

[IRISHSE]

After talking with Steve on the phone I'm going with the TTS tuner. He's got a base tune for my setup we'll adjust from there.

[YELLOWBIRD]

After talking with Steve on the phone I'm going with the TTS tuner. He's got a base tune for my setup we'll adjust from there.

Irishse,

You did the right thing, You WILL be glad you did!

good Luck,

YB

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Dude Heatwave.  I AM accountable.  ALWAYS.  I think you have things grossly mistaken and when called out on it, you say WE are all wrong.  Well, it's NOT what I have experienced at all.  And now with a dyno, it is also NOT what I am seeing.

I apologized to the OP, NOT you, BTW.  So, quote me all you wish.  Here's why...  I AM a fanboi of TTS.  But...  I realize some limitations to all of the various tuners out there. Even TTS falls short in various areas when tuning some bikes.  So? You, OTOH, seem like you work for or whatever for Dynojet?  I make mistakes... more than most, but I ALWAYS fess up on them.  I don't feel it makes me look stupid at all.  You... OTOH,

But, all of the TTS crap is for others to argue.  I don't have the time for you quoting me and trying to take ME to task.  What a joke.  I simply state differences that I know about.  Like PV doesn't use a true base calibration like TTS/SEPST/SERT.  So what?  I think the way PV does it is cool, for the most part.  But.... it CAN matter sometimes.  Everyone says TTS is not user friendly.  Might not be, either, for all I know.  What I DO know is it is NOT unfriendly to me.  TTS locks out a dealer?  Not true either.  My friend tested an MT8 out with a digital technician at his dealership, and whats locked out is the calibration and the TSSM/TSM.  We could still program the ABS, all the codes showed up, the radio, even, could be programmed.  So, blanket statements on YOUR end got me involved, when I KNEW better to do so.  What happens is the DEALER does not know how to deal with it.  A smart consumer of TTS, will simply tell a dealer that the bike has been tuned, there is NO ECM corruption and to simply bypass that screen, and poof...  your in.  Been there and done that.  Dumb ass techs will NOT bypass that screen unless they are told to do so.  Saying different is not true to me and my own personal experiences.

The OP will be fine with either Fuelmoto or Fullsac.  I, myself, vote for Fullsac.  I won't say why, I'm NOT in a fighting mood at all, but suffice to say, when I was down with Doc last year, he showed me a thing or three about 'tuning' and that pipe was one of those things.

[Heatwave]

It is your prerogative to support, endorse or even be a fan of any product you wish. As does any other poster looking to share their experiences with alternative products. Avoiding personal attacks and keeping remarks focused on the products and their advantages is in everyone's best interest. Not blaming others for unfortunate remarks is a good starting point.

The OP sought advice in order to make the best decision for his needs. He got LOTS of feedback and made what he thought was the best decision. As I said, all 3 tuners being discussed are quality products and will result in a quality tune in the hands of a knowledgable tuner.

For the various reasons I've shared, after many years with SERT & SEPST, I have concluded that the PV is the best tuner for my needs. The added benefits of a touchscreen on the bike, no need to strap a laptop to the bike for autotuning, and a complete set of gauges for monitoring engine performance resulted in me finding the Powervision to be a superior value and product for my needs.

The beauty of the situation is that we have tuning alternatives to choose from. Good luck to the OP as I'm confident he will be pleased with his decision and a cooler running bike.

[grc]

Are you done yet, or do you plan to keep dragging this out forever until no one else posts?  There has been no additional "factual" information added, so why not let this thread die a peaceful death.  The OP has announced his decision, case closed (we can only hope).

Jerry

[Heatwave]

I suppose the thread is complete when the OP reports back on his experience with his new tuner and new map. I second the support for Fullsac. I ran their baffles in the stock exhaust and had Fullsac bore my cat. Vey nice bump in performance and some of the best bang for $.

[SBB]

Are you done yet, or do you plan to keep dragging this out forever until no one else posts?  There has been no additional "factual" information added, so why not let this thread die a peaceful death.  The OP has announced his decision, case closed (we can only hope).

Jerry

As always Jerry, you nailed it again.
IRISHSE, you made a good decision!
Let us know the outcome.

SBB

[FLSTFI Dave]

After talking with Steve on the phone I'm going with the TTS tuner. He's got a base tune for my setup we'll adjust from there.

I think you will be very happy with your Decision.

His base set tunes are pretty good.  I have ran the base in three bikes now.

[naitram]

Yep.  Bought a dyno and rented a shop.  At work?  I go dead in the summer and winter work is like 80 hr weeks.  So, this fills the summer gap, tuning bikes.  Just an outgrowth of all of those arguing threads, going to Jim's house, etc.

I have direct link.  I use two Innovate LC1s to tune with instead of the TS WEGO.  I have tuned three bikes with TTS, now, and one with PV.  Got another PV bike coming Saturday.  117er.

It sure is fun!

so you are "in the biz"  and making recommendations to the members of this site?

[Heatwave]

so you are "in the biz"  and making recommendations to the members of this site?

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm......

[hrdtail78]

Wish you guys would rethink your stance on somebody that is in the industry, and commenting on these forums. I do not advertise. (Besides business card in abate newsletter). All my work is from word of mouth and I can't recall getting any business of the net. BUT.... and here is the big thing. I do tune 2-3 bikes a week. This week was a 08 RK with TTS, now it's a 07 with DL and tomorrow it will be a 09 Fatboy with SEPST.  So..... I might see more than just one tuner on one bike and making statements based on that.   I can listen to your opinion on my agenda here, or we as pro's can go down the road.  I don't want my azz kissed in any way but I would like some respect for my professional opinion. It isn't costing you anything, and I'm not making any money on it here or down the road.

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm......

Yes, I AM making recommendations.  Why on earth wouldn't I?  Does NONE of the members wish to hear from folks that tune more than their own bike?  The various trials and tribulations of various tuners and tuning methods?

If you wish for ALL tyhe folks that make money tuning, mfging tuners, etc to leave?  Just friggin say so.

Hmmmmm  your ass, dude.