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[Doc 1]

I'll answer your question professionally, even though you didn't state it as such...

New, the intake guide/valve stem clearances on my motor were .0014 and .0013.  New, the exhaust guide/valve stem clearance was .0019 and .0021.  
After 15k miles, at there loosest points, the intake guide/valve stem clearances are .0017 and .0019.  The exhaust guide/valve stem clearances are .0025 and .0027.  I didn't use go/no gauges, I used calibrated bore gages, which I have owned and used for many, many years.  The valve stem faces have no visible wear.  The rocker arm contact points have minimal visible wear.  The rocker arm bores have approx. .0003 to .0005 out of round wear.  The rocker arm shafts show no visible or measureable wear.  I am satisified with the performance of the stock rocker arms in this motor.

I use aftermarket and improved engine components where I believe them to be necessary and useful.  Although this motor is basically a stock 120r motor, I run T Man cams, I run a three stage Thayer oil pump, I run a Axtell oil bypass system.  I prefer S&S lifters, although at the present time, I am trying the latest SE lifters.  

The last two twin cam motors I built from the bottom up utilized Wes Brown components and Dave Mackie components.  Both of these (110) motors produced in excess of 125/125 and proved very reliable (with the exception of the lifters requiring regular attention).

And not that it's really important, but I built Divisional and National Championship winning V-8 road racing motors for over 30 years, and over the years provided research and development services for some of the top camshaft and cylinder head suppliers of the day, through sponsorship arrangements.  Although I retired from this activity over 10 years ago, I have retained all the necessary tools to build and maintain motors.

And...reply if you wish, but I'm not going to debate anything with you.  

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, didn't realize I was talking with a guru. Sorry guys.....I guess roller rockers aren't needed....

[redmtrckl]

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, didn't realize I was talking with a guru. Sorry guys.....I guess roller rockers aren't needed....

Just depends on what oil you run

[grc]

Just depends on what oil you run

And people call me a chit stirrer.

Jerry

[redmtrckl]

All kidding aside if I was to build another big inch motor with high lift cams it would have roller rockers like my old 114" had with the 647's.
I'm with Doc on this just because the devil is in the details.
When I downsized it to a 107" with the doughnut cams I use my original standard rockers so it would run quieter.
BTW I run Amsoil, Mobil 1, Royal Purple and Redline unless all I can get is Amalie. Mix em all together and it turns black

[SBB]

Before this thread gets to heated.  I respect doc and sadunbar very much.  Doc did not say you had to use rollers but he would.  Sadunbar said you don't have to cause he don't.

I do respect both of these guys opinions though. 
Todd.

Todd if your going to state what someone has said the respectful thing to do would be to get it right.
What you wrote was,

Sadunbar said you don't have to cause he don't.

Where did sadunbar say that?
The answer is, he didn't.
What sadunbar wrote was,

I have over 15K on my 120r with T Man 662-1 cams on stock rocker arms (non roller).  At this winter's inspection there is no sign of wear on either the valve stems or rocker arm contact points,  rocker arm bushings or rocker arm shafts.    I agree with previous comments by hd-dude and Thermodyne..   

His post was about his personal experience he has had.
He never wrote,

Sadunbar said you don't have to cause he don't.

Todd.

It may be nothing to you but if your going to speak for someone, please get it right.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, didn't realize I was talking with a guru. Sorry guys.....I guess roller rockers aren't needed....

Doc, on a site with 20K plus members there are some members that I KNOW I can take their advice to the bank.
Sadunbar is one of those.
I feel this site gives us a great opportunity to learn more about our bikes/motors.
The challenge we have as members is determining who really knows their stuff.
Sadunbar is one of those.
And the site is a better place for it.

 

SBB

[porthole]

What cam were you running?

Zippers 575's

[porthole]

Scott, what do you mean by "requiring regular attention"

[tweeter13]

Ya your right SBB.  I did miss quote.  My mistake and after re reading I did make the mistake and own up to it.  I should have used the quote thing correctly.   I thought it was going to get heated and it was late. 

I have read a lot of their post and would way a heavy decision on a engine modification on both of their feedbacks.  I feel that they both can be right in this instance. 

I have also read many of your feedbacks as well and you are also very well respected.  I shall take more time and use more of the tools at my disposal to make sure I quote correctly before I give my two cents next time.  I just want to give a different prospective with out some of our very highly respected members getting in a debate over something.  That I believed to me.  Was not as big a deal as I guess it was.   


No I don't come close to having the credentials that you guys have.  I sure wish I did.  But having you all work together for a better web sight then seeing a argument start like one did with another thread over a tuner with another member.  I didn't want something like that to happen again for what I thought was just a slight miss understanding. 

 I guess a failed badly at it.  Sorry again.   I didn't want to affend anyone or put words in any ones mouth that was not my intent at all.   

Just wanted to help.  Not cause more problems

Todd.   

[Hog95023]

Ok, I wont lock this thread then 

[sadunbar]

Scott, what do you mean by "requiring regular attention"

"Requiring regular attention" means I inspected the cam chest often, and at the first sign of the needle bearings going bad - any roughness at all, I replaced the lifters.   

[Hog95023]

By ofen do you mean every 5k oil change?

[porthole]

I'm guessing you are referring to the lifter roller's bearings then  

I still would like to know why my 3000 mile S&S lifter got that mark on the roller. The SE lifters I replaced had over 20K with no marks, same cams.

[SBB]

Ya your right SBB.  I did miss quote.  My mistake and after re reading I did make the mistake and own up to it.  I should have used the quote thing correctly.   I thought it was going to get heated and it was late. 

I have read a lot of their post and would way a heavy decision on a engine modification on both of their feedbacks.  I feel that they both can be right in this instance. 

I have also read many of your feedbacks as well and you are also very well respected.  I shall take more time and use more of the tools at my disposal to make sure I quote correctly before I give my two cents next time.  I just want to give a different prospective with out some of our very highly respected members getting in a debate over something.  That I believed to me.  Was not as big a deal as I guess it was.   


No I don't come close to having the credentials that you guys have.  I sure wish I did.  But having you all work together for a better web sight then seeing a argument start like one did with another thread over a tuner with another member.  I didn't want something like that to happen again for what I thought was just a slight miss understanding. 

 I guess a failed badly at it.  Sorry again.   I didn't want to affend anyone or put words in any ones mouth that was not my intent at all.   

Just wanted to help.  Not cause more problems

Todd.   

Todd

All is well IF,

you come to the next GTG.

Look at events and we hope to see you there or at least one of them.
It's a great site with great people and you need to come and meet some of them.
Thanks buddy!

 

SBB

[sadunbar]

I'm guessing you are referring to the lifter roller's bearings then  

I still would like to know why my 3000 mile S&S lifter got that mark on the roller. The SE lifters I replaced had over 20K with no marks, same cams.

 

The needle bearings of the rollers in the lifter...

[Snowyone]

Some how this post got twisted to talking about lifters instead of roller rockers.  I've used roller rockers on everything I've owned in the last 30 years.  From my 53 Pan to my 80FXWG, and evos to my current Fatboy with a 124 that's about to fire up for the first time this week.  Lots of weird angles between push rods, valves, etc.  To me it removes side tension from the valves prolonging guide and seal life.  Noise I don't know about cause my Shovelhead is a 4 3/4 stroke S&S bottom with Branch heads and solids and quiet it isn't.  I've replaced one guide in 40K and I think that was questionable.  Lifters on the other hand have ruined my day a couple of times.  Once on the FX and once on an Evo FLHTC.  Rule of thumb from now on is replace every 25K and use the good stuff made in the USA.  By the way,  all these roller rockers were built by Baisley in Portland, Or.