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[Steve Cole]

Any one here can post whatever they like, it's got nothing to do with what I want. You just have a hard time reading and answering simple questions IMHO. If you want to start a topic on Scatter Graphs and MLV be my guess but please quit destroying other posts that have nothing at all to do with it.

[whittlebeast]

EFI tuning has everything to do with control of the fuel being delivered from the injectors.  Scatter graphs are the best why I have ever seen to verify you have control.

The OP was asking if MB o2s will work.  My answer is not very well and there are better ways without purchasing a $35000 dyno.

Andy

[Steve Cole]

Andy

No one ever asked a DIY person to purchase a dyno! The OP was all about testing, NOT guessing with scatter graphs. Go do some testing on a HD and report back with your findings of real measured data, but please no more about your wags with no data and scatter graphs. They do however make for nice pretty pictures.

[turboprop]

I have repeatedly asked for data of a bike running in this operating range to look at and you and most all of your friends have refused to produce data feeds off your very own system.  That in itself throws up the red flag.

Andy

I agree. Has the OP put up any data of his own collection yet? Seems to me this thread has always been about the OP already thinking he knows something and wanting or trying to drive others to the same conclusion. Most of the knowledgeable and established tuners have either ignored this thread or have tapped out. I recommend you take the advice of Mr. Cole and opt of this thread as well and start a new thread. Maybe even do it on the 'unmentionable' forum where their is a larger technical knowledge base and likely to have better participation. I am very interested in know more about MLV and scattergraphs.

[Steve Cole]

The OP ASKED, never said a thing about having the answer on a HD engine to the question. It seems you are assuming a whole bunch that's not been stated anywhere that I know of. As a matter of fact  he posted what gave him the idea from his days as a race car driver and motorcycle dyno tuner. As for the scatter graphs those came and went years ago, they have there place but it just a pattern you look for but does nothing to show you what or where to do it. Andy could and should start his own thread if he wants to talk about patterns in scatter graphs. As a mater of fact I've even started it for him.

Andy's School of scatter graphs

[turboprop]

You know, just as scatter graphs have come and gone, so has the idea of using NB 02s to tune WOT. A simple google search turns up countless threads on automotive forums from the early 2000s where the car guys attempted to use NB 02s in the same fasion. The car guys have since dismissed using NB 02s for WOT tuning (tuning to a predetermined voltage). My guess is the few guys that are advocating for it in the harley scene will move on as well.

On a different subject, kinda, have you heard of any of the big automotive manufacturers or engineering schoolhouses doing anything like this? I put in a call last week to a college that works at GMI, will be interested to hear what thoughts he (or GMI) he has on NB02 tuning to a predetermined voltage. Certainly someone with allot more resources has already thought of this and is doing clinical research.

[Steve Cole]

The OEM's do not tune to WOT for power and have not for years. They have to worry about temperatures and Catalytic converter temperature based failure much more than the power output. So they have and do look at O2 voltage but only to get an idea of where they are at. Most have already done extensive models of temperature profiles of the entire exhaust systems and the ECM is programmed around keeping those in what they deem is the safe area. They even use the heater portion of the NB O2 to help them check the temperature too! That is just why there is always power to be had by changing the tune when you do not have to worry about these other issues. For the record there are now WOT test sections of the EPA testing that are required for automobiles and guess what...... they use the NB O2 voltage data when doing so. So your a little behind on what is currently being done in production water cooled automobile engines. HD also has this build into the ECM, it's called the PE mode and drives the fuel mixture way rich to keep temperatures in check but most donot understand why its there or how to use it.

When closing your eyes and only looking at one part of what needs to be done lots of things look pretty good but upon further inspection of ALL the variables the picture changes. While this is off topic it gives you just a little insight as what is really going on in today's world of automobile engine development.

[cvofbme]

I agree. Has the OP put up any data of his own collection yet?

No, but one of his supporters did, pity it was only idle data and that it was deliberate.

[hrdtail78]

No, but one of his supporters did,

My point was to show how much data was collected in 120 seconds of time.  Point made.  To who that passed over I am not concerned with.  Andy and those following do get it.  The tuning device that can collect the most data the fastest.  Will always be the winner.

Go back in the thread.  I have posted my WOT data that supports this tuning strategy.

pity it was only idle data and that it was deliberate.

I have a good understanding of data I collect.  Deliberate? What would you like to see?

Do not believe all the bullchit.  I support TTS Mastertune because it is the best, most versatile, fastest collecting data reflash tuner on the market.  I see all the hype and tune 2-3 bikes a week.  I am no shiny, unique snowflake, but see enough different stuff to form an educated opinion. That is all I can give.

Andy,
Start a thread and I will post data.  In the intent we can all learn something.  But I do have question and I would like answers.

HFT...... I sure do.

[FLTRI]

No, but one of his supporters did, pity it was only idle data and that it was deliberate.

Pity is using this thread for personal attacks and flaming members with absolutely nothing positive to offer to the topic.
Bob

[joe_lyons50023]

Now this will have to be tested on the new 614 cals to see what they do at a requested 13 afr.

[FLTRI]

Now this will have to be tested on the new 614 cals to see what they do at a requested 13 afr.

Yep. Really like the new CAN protocol bikes and their transfer speed. Vtuning is more accurate at a much faster rate.
Bob

[Steve Cole]

Now this will have to be tested on the new 614 cals to see what they do at a requested 13 afr.

It has to happen on the 614 both water cooled and air cooled as well as the 374 which are all new for 2014. Plenty of other combinations from the early bikes as well that still need to be tested.

[clubbie]

So after all the jibber jabber is there a table to specify that a certain mv = afr reliably for 18mm and 12mm NB O2 say up to 13.6 AFR?

Or not.

[FLTRI]

So after all the jibber jabber is there a table to specify that a certain mv = afr reliably for 18mm and 12mm NB O2 say up to 13.6 AFR?

Or not.

Not sure the testers are willing to post their voltage = AFR results?
I believe we had a few testers who actually performed the test and had hard results showing the viability.
Just not sure why they haven't posted the voltages they found to be good for their testing.
 
Bob