Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[whittlebeast]

I tuned my Sporty with just NB sensors.  When I wen to the wideband setup, I went out a did a data log with the same tune but logging with the widebands.  This is the results.  Keep in mind that a Sporty is TPS based VE tables.



http://www.ncs-stl.com/pc5wb/PC5WB_AfrScatterBefore.jpg

I was told that the guys at Dynojet were impressed.

Andy

[Steve Cole]

Keeping the cylinder fueling balanced when you can't get the widebands to survive before the turbo is going to be a challenge.  There is talk about running two turbos to beat that one.  Wish us a little luck

Andy

Since your going to run Broad Bands pre turbo you are going to have to add-in the pressure and temperature corrections or your readings are going to be out in left field. A typical turbo engine will run exhaust pressures around 2:1 to boost, so you will be looking at around 10 - 20 psig on the sensors for  boost of 5 - 10 psig as the boost comes up.

[whittlebeast]

Since your going to run Broad Bands pre turbo you are going to have to add-in the pressure and temperature corrections or your readings are going to be out in left field. A typical turbo engine will run exhaust pressures around 2:1 to boost, so you will be looking at around 10 - 20 psig on the sensors for  boost of 5 - 10 psig as the boost comes up.

I never said I was going to run widebands pre turbo.  Do you read posts?  Or just comment on what you assume people post?

[Coyote.]

Count the pulses on the graph. If you start with the wide gap as the end of the first cycle there are only 29 steps then the next wide pulse. The flywheel has 32 teeth with 2 missing so there should be 30 steps plus the wide one.  

There are no pulses on the graph. You need to count the transitions or steps. There are 30 steps with 2 missing. (I'll make it easy for you, count the vertical lines,not the horizontal ones)

[FLTRI]

I never said I was going to run widebands pre turbo.  Do you read posts?  Or just comment on what you assume people post?

Keeping the cylinder fueling balanced when you can't get the widebands to survive before the turbo is going to be a challenge...

Andy

?

[cvofbme]

?

Why the ? no reading comprehension skills?

[whittlebeast]

FLTRI, the next sentence was about running two turbos, this would allow the o2s to be post turbo.  Regarding two o2s pre single turbo, we can lock the turbo WG wide open to get the balance in the ballpark.  Time will tell.  He also owns a multi channel EGT setup.  There are plenty of options as the Squirt has CAN.  We may go MS3 Pro to get the high speed logging.

If this was easy.....

Andy

[turboprop]

Andy, have you done any work with engine management systems from Cosworth or Pectal? I know a couple guys that are running it on street harleys with turbos. Seems to work very well for them. I watched and helped out where I could as they struggled within the constrains of the harley delphi system. Without getting into the minutia, the two turbo/pectal equipped bikes I rode did not appear to have issues anywhere. I really dig what you are doing with this software.

[whittlebeast]

Turboprop

I have a friend with one of these.  http://www.efitechnology.com/engsoftware.html

He got cheep and did not get the data accusation package.  I am stuck tuning his Turbo Lotus Elise on a dyno only.

The yellow car in this video.    It runs way better now with a larger Turbo

If you are into traction circles, here is the data off that car.  http://www.ncs-stl.com/ron/RonGG_Front_6_7_01.jpg

Andy

[Hilly13]

So...back on song, how is the diy tuner going to establish what afr he has at wot with the nb's reported voltage? How do we verify what we have on the road?

[whittlebeast]

So...back on song, how is the diy tuner going to establish what afr he has at wot with the nb's reported voltage? How do we verify what we have on the road?

The bottom line answer is tuning with narrow band o2s in the 13:1 AFR range is impossible.  The only way I know to do WOT AFR stuff without a wideband is do it with prediction and math.  Some software packages allow this to be done quite easily and cheaply.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

There are no pulses on the graph. You need to count the transitions or steps. There are 30 steps with 2 missing. (I'll make it easy for you, count the vertical lines,not the horizontal ones)

Yep, that is correct.  The code is displaying the count of the last tooth it has seen.  It realizes that after it has seen 30 consecutive teeth that it should see a long gap before tooth 31 shows up.  The code will determine what phase of the motor (of the 720 degrees of rotation) based on when the MAP peaks show up in the teeth count.  EZ

The devil in the details is when the battery sucks screwing with the cranking speed in a big way.  The other tough situation is when the the system power is cycled for some reason wile rolling down the road.  The code has to quick boot and regain sync in a way the rider never notices a hiccup.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Andy,
Take peek at post #188 and explain how it is impossible to use NBO2 sensors to target a given AFR.
The impossible is possible!
Bob

[Steve Cole]

I never said I was going to run widebands pre turbo.  Do you read posts?  Or just comment on what you assume people post?

As I noted above your post said pre turbo. If your not going to run them pre turbo so be it. The aftermarket system you are showing is not using pulses but just the rising edge of the trigger........... got it now.

[whittlebeast]

Andy,
Take peek at post #188 and explain how it is impossible to use NBO2 sensors to target a given AFR.
The impossible is possible!
Bob

Add 20 points the the VE on all cells above say 80 KPA or above about 10% throttle to that tune (depending  on if it a Alpha-N or Speed Density VE table) to scramble the tune and make the bike butt fat. This may even be enough to add a dead miss to the situation.   Re-tune three different times and see if you keep coming back to the same answer.  Now let the weather change so the exhaust is running 300 degrees cooler and see what happens to the tunes.  Mount that motor in a full body bike and then change to a bobber and see what happens.

So change my wording from "impossible" to "sketchy at best to nearly impossible".

Here is what we developed for the Sporty Owners https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1ZpG7F_7q3g5MQW3BkgfZtQuHZ6W7nWUTeJ9Gw49FuZ8

Andy