Of course... I am always the chit stirrer or whatever.
Here are MY thoughts on this. Number 1 on MY list is the Broad Bands simply work for what we all do... tune Harleys. One can say they are incorrect, etc... and... maybe they really are, but is is THE tool we have, we all use them, and they DO get the job done. We are lucky, in that a HArley does NOT need to be tuned to the Nth degree. Good enough, after a point, really is good enough. If I am using my broad bands incorrectly, so what? I try to get a fuel line down to like 1/2 an AFR, from say 12.6 to 13.1. We all know that if we can keep WOT anywhere from 12.5 to 13.5... that is basically all it takes for a nice running bike at WOT. Am I correct?
Broadbands are simply good enough to use, how we use them, and all of that. I do NOT care if they are 100% accurate, etc. Filling any part of this thread with that BS, is simply BS, in MY book.
Broadbands from Bosch ARE the GOLD STANDARD of tuning. period! Almost everybody, with a dyno shop, be it car, truck, or bike uses these braodbands and they do NOT tell pressure, not temp while doing so. End of discussion on THAT!
The ONLY question here, that I see that needs to be addressed is this... can a software company come up with a scheme that can be used for 80-100kpa, while tuning, to be able to use factory stock NB sensors.
Again... I do NOT care how folks argue whether the NBs are accurate to what Nth degree and all of that. For TUNING purposes, they will NOT be used for fuel control, etc... Simply for TUNING.
Back in the day, when TTS was introduced, folks thought that ANY use of the NB sensors was complete bullchit. Same with Closed Loop in general.
Here, 5 yeasr later, time has marched on. Even the most ardent haters and most outspoken of folks AGAINST using NBs to tune with, NOW do so. Their arguments have morphed from NO closed loop to no closed loop using TTS, all the while using PV is fine for closed loop.
Well............... that to me validates a whole lot of the early arguments against using the NBs from way back then. Almost everyone that tunes Harleys sees how NBs have a time and place. NO ONE says they are not useful anymore. Folks have used and learned.
What I have learned is if one is going to have closed loop, it IS so much the right thing to use the bike's NB sensors, over some wide bands, it is silly! All now seem to agree with... if it is going closed loop somewhere, use the bike's sensors, because those will be the sensors whose job it is to keep it in closed loop anyway. The whole closed loop system uses those sensors, so we really need to use those whenever possible.
This is why the PV, TTS, SEPST and even DL have the abilities to use the bike's sensors.
So, with this thread, folks were trying to make folks, 'see the light' so to speak. Make 'em think stuff.
OK, fine, we have thought and argued, etc. SOme HAVE mentally at least now think this is possible to do.
What we need now... is a release of the product at hand. With a product in hand... all of us can test and compare. I told Mayor on the phone, that I surely would give this a shot, and tune using this.... along with using my dyno sniffer to verify. Once I verify that I could tune 100kpa, and have that info come into a finished fuel line that is relatively close to my manually sniffing a bike for AFR? If I can get this to repeat on like a small handful of bikes? I will stop sniffing bikes and use this exclusively.
Until I get my hands on one... this is ALL conjecture on our parts, because it looks like Steve and Bob aer the only ones to have really tried and compared. Until I, myself, try and compare? I have really nothing more to say on this. It SOUNDS to me that this could really work... just like back in the day when I purchased TTS v100... because it all sounded like it would work. And... it did, and over time it became the tuner to use over any of the rest.
I cannot say this about 100kpa yet, because I do NOT have the software to try it out... even on my old 120r. I would buy a blue to try this with, if Steve sent me a copy of the software, just like I assume Hilly, for example, would.
I think, in my own heart, the time has come to allow some of us that have been involved in THIS OP... also try this out, Steve.
Let US see if this keeps up with our Gold Standard of Wide Bands? THAT is the true idea behind of of this... can we tune a bikes 100kpa regions using TTS with NO offboard devices? Will these tunes fairly match up to ones we sniff? My personal feeling is the wide bands have a few issues, but none of that stops them from being THE most used tool for tuning. OK... the NBs have some issues, too. OK, fine. BOTH have issues and BOTH are not 100% accurate to the Nth degree... I 'get' that, OK?
I have been to Missouri....
The time has come. Give me a BETA and I WILL use it and report back. Give Mayor, Hilly, Jason, ED Conner, etc all one... so we can ALL try it out.
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Topic: O2 Sensor Output (mv) compared to measured AFR (Read 154073 times)