Andy, here is one for you. This started for me, because I have two ECMs for my bike. a 2009 ECM that tunes with TTS AFR calibrations, and a 2010 ECM that uses Lambda. The bike came with a 2010.
Earlier this year, I wished to play with a SESPT and a PV. I have a used pV and all I would need to do is cough up $160 to DJ to get a tuning license.
Earlier, though,... I had screwed up. I had lost the MTEs for both ECMs. Especially the 09 ECM. I had converted the bike over to an 09 scheme, using 18mm sensors and new wiring for the sensors, etc. Welded in new bungs and the whole enchilada.
The new bung locations did make a difference in street tuning BTW.
OK, once I bought a dyno.... it became time to play around with crap and learn new and different things that the same-ole same-ole we have all be stuck in a rut in... ya know?
So, I asked Steve to send me out an 'unlocker' for the ECM, to get rid of the TTS lock on things. Talking to Steve, he asked me what tuner I was going to use. I said either a PV or use the new Direct Link stuff (I am a direct link shop, like Jason is).
What I learned IS very interesting. The PV and the TTS/SEPST work totally different from each other. TTS/SEPST uses a complete base calibration every time one pick what base cal to run in a bike. PV, OTOH, uses the stock cal and pulls it up for changes and shoots it back in. Now... at first glance, I thought that was wildly cool! THIS is what I do at my job... pull out programming, add a couple lines of instructions, and shoot the new program back into a PLC. There is NO question that this works quite well to me.
But.... as one of the few folks around that got to play..... I played with the DELPHI developers copy of all of the tables, etc inside of a Delphi. Steve may correct me (like friggin always HAHA!), but there are actually over 120 tables. look ups. etc in a Delphi. All of our tuners do what? Around 30 or so I think. The TRUE Delphi tuner has timing for each gear. Has when the cruise will no longer work (85mph). what teeth it reads for starting, timing, etc. And a biggie like when does Torque Management come into play.
90 things we cannot change,, nor can we get at. A PV cannot change ANY of these settings. It can ONLY use whats stock. A TTS or SEPST base cal can have these hidden settings changed. So....#1 in my book is all about how a TTS base cal can have cruise work at 100mph; how to play torque management (none); etc. The reason that TTS and SEPST can do this, is those programs shoot a whole new base cal into the bike. With ALL of the instructions. Like crap... what do if run/stop is stop. WHat do when key turns on. Etc.
One can NOT take a blank ECM and program it with a PV, as a PV base calibration is smaller than a TTS or SEPST calibration and does not carry with it the sections of operation that affect all the crap needed to run. Same as none of the crap, we wish altered, like cruise and torque management will NOT be changed with a PV.
It was cool to learn, and I went ahead and purchased the Direct Link/ Centurion upgrade that allows one to totally flash an ECM with OUT needing a Digital Technician from a Dealer. We can set Fobs, pin numbers, bleed ABS; all the crap a DT can do... but do NOT have to be a dealer.
Kind of cool. But... alas.... this is NOT a tool a DIYer would/should buy. It is like $1000 and STILL takes a separate off board WB set up to tune with. I am using two Innovate LC1s for that duty. I have a pair of AFX /NTK sensors to try out eventually, too. Andy, it doesn't collect as much Data as say a PV or TTS uses, but one CAN use the NBs on a bike... and I am wondering how much 'parallel' data I can gather with a DL system for MV comparisons? I am FAR from being 'anti wide band'. Jason is correct, too about the why and how... on why I am a fan. WIth a Harley, how fine should this all be tuned? And... if I believe (like I DO) that a wide band, with all of the special circumstances they need to be used in) I trust them pretty much. ANd... the only difference is the reference air pumping cell... so when I have matched my AFRs to MV reading and did hit of miss trying to pull in those MV readings... I feel that I had success at it. It can be made to work for a DIYer, I feel.
But... at that level of DIYdom........ I would really tell a DIY guy to go get a DTT Twin Scan+kit and be done.
I do NOT know who, in this thread, started out or still is a DIYer. I know Mayor and I did for sure. AFter a point, even a dedicated DIYer will gather new tools to further the education one needs, right? Beginning of 2008, right after TTS was released... I purchased one. Twenty five years later worth of arguing crap, I now have my OWN dyno. ANd... besides all of the normal reason a guy would buy a dyno... I bought mine to LEARN and try new chit out on. Its my electric bill and I can, if so desired, play all I wish to do so. Mayor is just about in the same boat as I am. Onliest thing would be... in the past... I went ahead and purchased a DTT Twin SCan + Kit. AN Innovate LM2, two Innovate LC1s, two AFX/NTKs, and some other crap too. Regardless of whats said here, I, me, beileve wide bands do a decent job. ANd... from Steve, et al. I KNOW where they supposedly fall short, but on a HArley, I haven't noticed these 'issues' using the WBs.
I have a strong feeling that folks could use NBs, if they wished, using MV readings. There are 'issues' with those, too. Folks here point them all out, just like Steve points out all the crap with a WB. Know what? On our bikes? It's MY guess (with some secret work on the dyno).. BOTH will work well enough. With more playing around, I may change my mind. Who knows?
Oh... and Steve has been too busy to ever getting around to sending me the unlocker thingy, too. But, thats OK, anyways, I guess.
HAHA!!!
Carry on!
Author
Topic: O2 Sensor Output (mv) compared to measured AFR (Read 153613 times)