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[sadunbar]

Crank sensor?  You can get spark with a faulty crank sensor, just not necessarily when you want it...

[Twolanerider]

Crank sensor?  You can get spark with a faulty crank sensor, just not necessarily when you want it...

And no code to suggest it's bad.  They'll also crap out all at once or fail intermittently.  Pain in the ass piece to diagnose sometimes.  Thank Willie they're (relatively) cheap and easy to change.  Sometimes easier to replace it than worry about it if in doubt.

[sadunbar]

And no code to suggest it's bad.  They'll also crap out all at once or fail intermittently.  Pain in the ass piece to diagnose sometimes.  Thank Willie they're (relatively) cheap and easy to change.  Sometimes easier to replace it than worry about it if in doubt.

Yep.  And between my bike and my riding buddy's bike I've dealt with all of those scenario's within the last year!   

[Twolanerider]

Yep.  And between my bike and my riding buddy's bike I've dealt with all of those scenario's within the last year!   

Have seen them all around here too.  It's one of the more common parts to fail.  Not as often as the old cam position sensors.  But not that far behind.

[sadunbar]

Have seen them all around here too.  It's one of the more common parts to fail.  Not as often as the old cam position sensors.  But not that far behind.

I actually carry a spare now...   

[Twolanerider]

I actually carry a spare now...   

Me too.  When I used to do the long road trips more (damn wish I had more time) that was part always in my travel spares.  Actually used one on the road once.  That use saved far more expense and hassle than the cost of carrying many spares.  There's not a lot that we can do on the side of the road anymore.  But that happens to be something we can deal with.

[kiwirob]

Starting to think about valve adjustment.
Disconnected the ACR's and didn't make any difference - should have made a big difference.
I'll check compression and pushrod adjustment.
Put new lifters in and didn't take them long to bleed down , I assumed there was little oil in them.
Maybe it was the adjustment?

Check rocker cover to rocker arm clearances at the valve spring and push ends while you're at it. - Rob

[sadunbar]

Me too.  When I used to do the long road trips more (damn wish I had more time) that was part always in my travel spares.  Actually used one on the road once.  That use saved far more expense and hassle than the cost of carrying many spares.  There's not a lot that we can do on the side of the road anymore.  But that happens to be something we can deal with.

As have I...  And at the next dealership we encountered, a new spare was acquired.  With the dealers stocking much less inventory these days, it's meaningful that many stock crank sensors.  I suspect this is volume driven, which means they know there is a (secret) issue with the piece...

[98fxstc]

Crank sensor?  You can get spark with a faulty crank sensor, just not necessarily when you want it...

And no code to suggest it's bad.  They'll also crap out all at once or fail intermittently.  Pain in the ass piece to diagnose sometimes.  Thank Willie they're (relatively) cheap and easy to change.  Sometimes easier to replace it than worry about it if in doubt.

Thankyou Scott and Don
I think thats it!
I put a timing light on it and spark to both cylinders is all over the place ,sometimes dropping out altogether.
Also got a ACR on the front cylinder stuck open so no compression there.

Now I know there is no spark without a plug in the plug hole and I'm not sure how the compression determines whether you get spark or not so the the faulty ACR in the front cylinder may also be throwing the spark.
I'll replace the CPS and the ACR and I should be right.

Thanks to all.

[Hilly13]

Senses the crank slowing on compression stroke

[Buckeye_Tuning]

The way the bike sense compression with the spark plugs is straight forward.  A spark jumps a gap, in free air very easily.  Just like all have seen many times testing with spark plugs.  It takes more current to jump a gap in compressed air.  More molecules to get past. while staying at the same speed.  Takes more ass to get past all of the extra crap in the way.  Get me?  ION sensing can see how much current it takes to jump a gap, if it takes way less current... that gap must be in free air, the ECM sees these signals and kills the spark.  Why spark in free air?  Something must be wrong!  Lets quit shooting spark until it is correct for ignition again.... are some of the thoughts behind the programming.

When it kills the spark... it also kills the fuel. Since we quit giving it spark, we should kill fuel delivery until we see compression again!

The ECM uses ION to test current.  and ultimately THAT kills fuel delivery to an engine that can no longer run anyways.

See?

[Dennis the Menace]

The way the bike sense compression with the spark plugs is straight forward.  A spark jumps a gap, in free air very easily.  Just like all have seen many times testing with spark plugs.  It takes more current to jump a gap in compressed air.  More molecules to get past. while staying at the same speed.  Takes more ass to get past all of the extra crap in the way.  Get me?  ION sensing can see how much current it takes to jump a gap, if it takes way less current... that gap must be in free air, the ECM sees these signals and kills the spark.  Why spark in free air?  Something must be wrong!  Lets quit shooting spark until it is correct for ignition again.... are some of the thoughts behind the programming.

When it kills the spark... it also kills the fuel. Since we quit giving it spark, we should kill fuel delivery until we see compression again!

The ECM uses ION to test current.  and ultimately THAT kills fuel delivery to an engine that can no longer run anyways.

See?

So, how do you know how to adjust the values which are setup specific to known variables of the engine components with a factory ECM?  If they must be precise to work correctly with a stock motor, what is the procedure to measure the new values required when a simple, or complex, change is made to the motor?  Is it guess work, or is there a specific procedure/process to determine correct values with a modified motor, baed on the mods made?  And, how does this affect timing?

Would like to see more in depth details on this.

[Buckeye_Tuning]

The issue becomes when we change compression.  The values stay the same.  We can't change them.

So... after someone does a 'build' and they see a BUNCH of activity that is false?  It's probably best to turn off any long term learning and simply leave fast retard in place with reduced numbers in the knock tables.

This IS an issue with builders and tuners.  After a point, if the build is big enough or whatever enough to induce false retards, making sure one's timing tables are decent and killing either learned or even fast retard has to come into play.  All the ion stuff is fairly much pre set with however it is they build a coil, is my own understanding.

really GOOD question, Dennis. that needed to be raised, BTW.  It has been my own very limited experience that 190ish CCP still works it ok, but I have seen others with higher comp, or something wierd going on that makes it necessary to kill it for the most part.

I have always, and continue to be a proponent of ION sensing.  Just like I tend to feel closed loop can be used for most builds, etc.

But... there will be times, and bikes.... that should NOT use closed loop, and the same is for using ION sensing.  There ARE limits to both.

[Fired00d]

Attention All!!! You'll notice a lot of the BS has been removed from this thread. Also some members are starting to be weeded out. If you would like to continue being a member of this site I suggest you take heed to the global announcement (located at the top of each board) that has been posted.

Get back on topic of the thread or don't post in it.

Edit: Any quotes of/comments (negative or affirmitive) to my post are not what this thread is about and will be removed. If you wish to discuss my post you can PM me or any of the other moderators regarding it.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[bf2002flht]

So was the CPS the culprit? Are you back on the road?