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[110tHunDer]

 
It's going to be tough (i.e., expensive) to beat the low end of the 255s, Joe.  If the fact that they crap out at 4,000 rpm doesn't bother you, you might be better off leaving well enough alone.  Better mileage might be had, but you can buy a lot of gas for what you might spend with a cam upgrade.  Not sure the return will be there.  Also, 110s run hot, no matter what, IMO.  Don't think you will see any night and day difference in that from a cam swap.

All that being said, as has been pointed out, the ESP covers more than just the motor.  So far, I've made the choice not to get one, but even if you did extensive motor mods like me, they couldn't deny a radio claim, for example.  Though, the return might not be there on that investment, either.

[grc]

---------------------------------------------------
All that being said, as has been pointed out, the ESP covers more than just the motor.  So far, I've made the choice not to get one, but even if you did extensive motor mods like me, they couldn't deny a radio claim, for example.  Though, the return might not be there on that investment, either.

That's the part I really wonder about Brian.  Your statement is true when it comes to factory warranty, but maybe not with the ESP.  I've seen reports from a couple folks over the past few years that indicated the entire contract was declared void, once by someone with a trailer hitch which is a definite no-no with the ESP folks, and once with engine mods.  Not actually having an ESP myself, I've never had reason to try to determine if there is any legal recourse for the customer if they void the entire contract.  Thus my comments to those who do have an ESP to check this out before just assuming they would still be covered for the rest of the bike if coverage was refused due to engine mods. 

As for ESP's in general, I still think that for the average person it makes a lot more sense financially to just take that couple grand and stick it in a safe investment labeled "Repair Fund".  If repairs are needed, the money is there.  If repairs aren't needed, there's a nice little nest egg you can spend on something nice for your partner or yourself.  However, if you buy the ESP and never need a couple grand worth of repairs, someone else will be spending your money on something nice.

JMHO - Jerry

[sadunbar]

That's the part I really wonder about Brian.  Your statement is true when it comes to factory warranty, but maybe not with the ESP.  I've seen reports from a couple folks over the past few years that indicated the entire contract was declared void, once by someone with a trailer hitch which is a definite no-no with the ESP folks, and once with engine mods.  Not actually having an ESP myself, I've never had reason to try to determine if there is any legal recourse for the customer if they void the entire contract.  Thus my comments to those who do have an ESP to check this out before just assuming they would still be covered for the rest of the bike if coverage was refused due to engine mods. 

As for ESP's in general, I still think that for the average person it makes a lot more sense financially to just take that couple grand and stick it in a safe investment labeled "Repair Fund".  If repairs are needed, the money is there.  If repairs aren't needed, there's a nice little nest egg you can spend on something nice for your partner or yourself.  However, if you buy the ESP and never need a couple grand worth of repairs, someone else will be spending your money on something nice.

JMHO - Jerry

Couldn't agree with you more, Jerry...      Right on the money...

(no matter what Twolane says...)

[JoeVibe]

And as Jerry said, some dealers may just be promising the world to sell the esp. But I got my esp from my dealer at a great discount so I don't think that was his motivation. And if he does lie to me then I will take my business elsewhere. I don't think that will happen, my dealer has a great reputation

Just be careful what you choose as replacement cams. The current 255's are pretty good. I would be interested to know what you are considering. Me? I am considering the S&S 551's

Tight lines
DR

DR,

My dealer has told me that he would take care of warranty (ESP) issues on any mods that they do for me. He also warned me that if I were traveling, other dealerships would most likely decline. I've got to know the owner fairly well and I don't think he would BS me on this. (But I guess I could be wrong)

The Kuryakyn TC-24D cams have peaked my interest. It looks to me like they make more torque sooner and hold it longer than the 255's. But I'm a serious Harley rookie and I was going to start that thread a little later to get opinions. My next (minor) mod is the Daymaker lights.

It's going to be tough (i.e., expensive) to beat the low end of the 255s, Joe.  If the fact that they crap out at 4,000 rpm doesn't bother you, you might be better off leaving well enough alone.  Better mileage might be had, but you can buy a lot of gas for what you might spend with a cam upgrade.  Not sure the return will be there.  Also, 110s run hot, no matter what, IMO.  Don't think you will see any night and day difference in that from a cam swap.

All that being said, as has been pointed out, the ESP covers more than just the motor.  So far, I've made the choice not to get one, but even if you did extensive motor mods like me, they couldn't deny a radio claim, for example.  Though, the return might not be there on that investment, either.

Hi Brian,

I was thinking more about miles between fill ups than saving money on gas. I hate stopping at gas stations once I get rolling. I don't think I've ever thought about saving money with this bike. I've never got a ROI on my toys.

I'm not looking to build a race bike, but more power in the right range just can't be a bad thing, can it?.

As for ESP's in general, I still think that for the average person it makes a lot more sense financially to just take that couple grand and stick it in a safe investment labeled "Repair Fund".  If repairs are needed, the money is there.  If repairs aren't needed, there's a nice little nest egg you can spend on something nice for your partner or yourself.  However, if you buy the ESP and never need a couple grand worth of repairs, someone else will be spending your money on something nice.

JMHO - Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I agree with this 100%. I've questioned why I bought the ESP to start with but I guess, in my mind, I was erring on the "safer" side. Like I said earlier, until now, I never buy these kinds of products.

[2k]

An easy way to save some money, make sure you look at the Phase 7 Trucklites before buying

[110tHunDer]

 
Well, if saving money isn't the objective, keep the ESP for the things that might be covered and mod on to your heart's content!

[JoeVibe]

An easy way to save some money, make sure you look at the Phase 7 Trucklites before buying

Hi 2k,

I looked hard at the Trucklites and it may sound silly but I don't like the way the plate that separates the hi and low beams looks. I tried to talk myself into them because they're so much cheaper but I can't get past the look.

Well, if saving money isn't the objective, keep the ESP for the things that might be covered and mod on to your heart's content!

See Brian, that's why I post here. That just might be the answer. Who can honestly say they bought a CVO to save money?

[HOGMIKE]

I put 49,000 miles on my 2010 FLHTK in 728 days. During that time the warranty repaired or replaced....

- 2 compensators
- 1 stator
- 2 wheels w/flaking chrome
- 1 rear drive pulley
- 2 HK stereos
- the entire top end of the motor
- clutch & basket
- 3 fairing brackets
- 8 (IIRC) tires

And I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

The bike never made it out of warranty thanks to a teenager, his cell phone, and his Civic.  But I'd say that based on that repair history, I'd have been using the ESP frequently.....If for nothing else, than for tires.  In fact, the ESP paid for itself in tires alone.

For me, the bragging rights of an extra 10 horsepower in my 900 pound Touring bike are far less important to me than being able to confidently ride 25-30,000 miles a year, and not have to worry about having to shell out a pile of money in repairs.

2010 FLHTK
80000 miles
1 compensator (under warranty)
Rear exhaust guide came loose at about 75K miles (my dime)
No other issues on the bike
It has a stage 2 Fullsac kit installed at 2000 miles, and rings and valve job at the 75K mark.
Still running fine, although I think I'll replace the O2 sensors along with plugs and wires.
Just got back from a long 800 mile weekend and the bike ran great!
JMHO...........NO ESP.
 

[05Train]

2010 FLHTK
80000 miles
1 compensator (under warranty)
Rear exhaust guide came loose at about 75K miles (my dime)
No other issues on the bike
It has a stage 2 Fullsac kit installed at 2000 miles, and rings and valve job at the 75K mark.
Still running fine, although I think I'll replace the O2 sensors along with plugs and wires.
Just got back from a long 800 mile weekend and the bike ran great!
JMHO...........NO ESP.
 

Well there you go.  Sounds like we both made the right choice.  Pretty damn sad though that two bikes from the same year, ridden similarly would have such vastly different repair histories.

[ultrarider123]

Well there you go.  Sounds like we both made the right choice.  Pretty damn sad though that two bikes from the same year, ridden similarly would have such vastly different repair histories.

One was a Monday/Friday build, the other a Wednesday build ?   

[JoeVibe]

One was a Monday/Friday build, the other a Wednesday build ?   

I guess, like everything else, it's a roll of the dice. I'm going to spend some time reading my ESP contract and talking to my dealer and decide what to do with it.

I know me, and I'm not going to leave things as is just to maintain the ESP.

If I find my mods will void the entire contract, I'll cancel it. If they'll continue to cover the unmodified parts of the bike, I'll probably keep it.

[mark]

Been riding bout 50yrs. Use top-line fluids and change often. Never had a complete failure. Like grc has stated many times, they don't sell the ESP because they want to make sure you are covered incase of breakdown.

X2.  ESPs are offered because of their profitability...for the MC and the ESP provider.  I'm not a big ESP fan either.

[phato1]

I looked hard at the Trucklites and it may sound silly but I don't like the way the plate that separates the hi and low beams looks. I tried to talk myself into them because they're so much cheaper but I can't get past the look.

That's why I put the HD daymakers on my CUSE6. I'll tell you what them things are BRIGHT especially in conjunction with the passing lamps, on any group rides when evening comes I'm now elected to lead.

When mine had a tappet go south taking out the cams ect... I chose to put new 255's in along with updated cam bearings and the latest version of the Screamin' Eagle tappets, I guess these parts could be technically considered a "modification" but with the ESP I figure there would be less chance of claim issues if the engine has all HD hardware in it - although that is still not a certainty if I end up breaking down away from home and come across a dealer or claim adjuster in a disagreeable mood.

I love the low end pull of the 255's the torque is right where I do most of my riding.

[FlaHeatWave]

'Have ESPs on the '05 and the '09.

Me = Windshield

ESP = Bug

[05Train]

X2.  ESPs are offered because of their profitability...for the MC and the ESP provider.  I'm not a big ESP fan either.

They make sense for a particular type of owner, and I'm one of them.

I commute to work on my bike as often as I can, and I do a lot of construction site visits.  As a result, I get a lot of nails, screws, and debris in my tires.  In tires alone, my last 7 year ESP paid for itself in 2 years.

I also do a lot of long trips.  Should anything happen to the bike at 9pm on a Saturday night, I have an 800 number to call.  My bike will get towed to the nearest dealer, I'll be put up in a motel for the night, and the bike will be fixed.  I'll be $50 out of pocket, no matter what.

Sadly, The Mothership doesn't build these bikes to last anymore....Certainly not for year after year of 30,000 mile riding.  The $22/month my ESP amortizes out to (if I were paying for it monthly) is well worth it to me, and it's been my experience (with Harleys) that I'll come out way ahead.