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[JoeVibe]

At what point in modifying your bike does it no longer make sense to have the ESP coverage?

When I bought mine, I bought the 7 year ESP never thinking I would be making as many changes as I have done, or am planning to have done in the future. I thought about this, this weekend, when I was talking to my H-D service guy about swapping cams.

Thoughts?

[ultrarider123]

Joe, my feeling is weigh the costs of the ESP vs loosing any covered repairs due to any performance mods.  Your local dealer may do the mods for you and honor your ESP through the entire period (but I'd watch it...personel change in a dealership) but you may be out of luck if you travel and have an issue away from home.  Personally, I've decided to purchase the ESP toward the end of my two year factory warranty and delay the performance mods.  You (and quite a few others on the forum) may feel the performance outweighs the ESP.  However, even if you use HD and/or Screamin Eagle parts, some say quite specifically that "this will void your warranty".
Make it go faster or keep it stock and covered?  If you already have the money tied up in the ESP, I'd be very careful in what I did to the Ultra....my two cents brother.

Howard

[grc]

First, factory warranty and ESP are not the same and what may be true for one will not necessarily be true for the other.  For instance, factory warranty's are regulated by federal law and they can't legally refuse to honor the warranty unless they can reasonably show that any modifications you made were the proximate cause of the failure (of course if the modified part itself fails that isn't covered by the factory warranty anyway).  On the other hand, the ESP is not regulated under warranty law and the contract itself is the final word.  Read the entire contract and all supporting documentation very carefully, specifically looking for definitions of what is covered and what is not covered, and any requirements to maintain coverage such as only using OEM parts.  I think you will find that the ESP endorsed by Harley has a lot of gotcha's in the contract.  And don't assume a promise by someone at a dealer to take care of you under the ESP is worth more than the hot air involved in making the statement.  The ESP folks have their own reps who visit dealerships to inspect and approve/disapprove repairs, and their decision trumps the dealership folks.

You may want to study the contract and then actually call the administrator of the ESP to ask some questions.  For instance, if you modify the engine will they void all of your coverage, including electrical, or just the powertrain portion of the coverage?  If they can assure you they will still cover the other items, then perhaps it would make sense to keep the ESP, even after modifying the engine, just to cover the electrical and electronics.  But if it's as I suspect based on reports I've seen, and they void the entire contract, then you may want to get a refund on the unused portion of the contract and put it in a repair fund or use it to pay for your mods.

Jerry

[05Train]

Neither Harley nor the ESP is required to warranty non-stock items.  Neither will void the entire warranty based on aftermarket parts.   I have an ESP due to the fact that I ride 30,000 miles a year and the bike wasn't designed for that.  I'm more interested in longevity than an extra 10hp, so I don't bother with cams.   I have yet to find a dealer ( though I'm sure they're out there) that would take issue with a Stage 1, so that's as far as I'll go. 


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Me, I have never bought the ESP.  I have one bike I ride the heck out of and keep close to stock, tade it when it hits 40 to 45K miles, then the other bikes, the ones I keep, I do motor work right away, so ESP would be no good.

03 Fatboy, built the motor when bike was 8 months old.

13 CVO King, with 2505 miles on the motor, less than 2 months old, built the motor.

[2k]

Been riding bout 50yrs. Use top-line fluids and change often. Never had a complete failure. Like grc has stated many times, they don't sell the ESP because they want to make sure you are covered incase of breakdown.

[ultrarider123]

Jerry, Dave and 2K, all good points in whether or not to purchase the ESP.  However in this case Joe has already put down the bills for the ESP so money has been spent.  Was or is that a wise choice if one plans to do (major) mods I believe is the question.

Joe, if you want to do the mods, see if you can get a refund for the ESP.  That's quite a bit of money down the tubes if you make the mods and the underwriters for the ESP don't warrant any failures due to those mods OR they give you a hassle about repairs due to mods and delay any/all payments for warranty repair while your stuck in the middle of Bum-Fuzzle, WY.  As Jerry pointed out, check the contract.  Personally, if I had put down the cash for the extended protection, I wouldn't want to jepardize it with changes....

[2k]

Jerry, Dave and 2K, all good points in whether or not to purchase the ESP.  However in this case Joe has already put down the bills for the ESP so money has been spent.  Was or is that a wise choice if one plans to do (major) mods I believe is the question.

Joe, if you want to do the mods, see if you can get a refund for the ESP.  That's quite a bit of money down the tubes if you make the mods and the underwriters for the ESP don't warrant any failures due to those mods OR they give you a hassle about repairs due to mods and delay any/all payments for warranty repair while your stuck in the middle of Bum-Fuzzle, WY.  As Jerry pointed out, check the contract.  Personally, if I had put down the cash for the extended protection, I wouldn't want to jepardize it with changes....

I WOULD NOT do anything that may cost coverage on a paid up plan. If the ESP is like most any insurance you purchase, cashing it in is not an option as they will pro-rate and you might get .35 on the dollar. Ride now........mod later.  If you know going in you want performance mods.....don't buy the ESP. Joe has a tough decision as he already has the plan and might/will lose his coverage if mods are performed. Not worth it in my book!

[110tHunDer]

...

Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

Haven't you gotten tired of that yet?

[Midnight Rider]

I WOULD NOT do anything that may cost coverage on a paid up plan. If the ESP is like most any insurance you purchase, cashing it in is not an option as they will pro-rate and you might get .35 on the dollar. Ride now........mod later.  If you know going in you want performance mods.....don't buy the ESP. Joe has a tough decision as he already has the plan and might/will lose his coverage if mods are performed. Not worth it in my book!

Actually, from my experience, you can get a pretty good refund, depending on when in the policy you cancel it.  It is prorated, but the hit you take is not all that bad.

I think the real problems arise when one starts going inside the engine and doing things, ESPECIALLY if the parts are non HD parts and not done by a dealership.  Even then, it is a risky proposition, at best.  Still, you are at the mercy of the claims adjuster...

[JoeVibe]

A little more background on me:

I had no idea that I would be wanting to make modifications to this bike. (Niave I guess  ) . Going in, I told myself "it's a top of the line H-D, what more could I possibly want? I was an old hot rod guy back in the 70's and 80's but I haven't wrenched on anything in a long time and thought I was over it. As much as I love this bike I'm actually having a lot of fun personalizing it and making it "better".

I never (until my two H-D purchases) buy extended warranties or ESP type products. I know that they're written for the benefit of the seller much more than the buyer. My thinking with this bike was that I love it, I'm going to keep it, and the ESP would give me many worry free miles, and in all honesty, I wasn't that confident in H-D's reliability. In reading this site and meeting a lot of you I'm hearing a lot of stories of ten's of thousands of miles on these bikes.

I am an information junkie and I love this site and all the experienced info you guys post.That said, this site is the main reason I'm doing most of the mods to my bike. (Not complaining at all, just a fact). I appreciate learning from others sucesses or mistakes.

I really appreciate all the replies and I hope this conversation continues for a while. I know eventually the final decision is mine but your input really helps.

I'd like to take another angle on this if you guys dont mind. My Part 2 question is:

How many of you have you had major issues, or enough minor ones, with your bike to justify the $$ spent on your ESP plan?

Thanks,

Joe

[05Train]

I put 49,000 miles on my 2010 FLHTK in 728 days. During that time the warranty repaired or replaced....

- 2 compensators
- 1 stator
- 2 wheels w/flaking chrome
- 1 rear drive pulley
- 2 HK stereos
- the entire top end of the motor
- clutch & basket
- 3 fairing brackets
- 8 (IIRC) tires

And I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

The bike never made it out of warranty thanks to a teenager, his cell phone, and his Civic.  But I'd say that based on that repair history, I'd have been using the ESP frequently.....If for nothing else, than for tires.  In fact, the ESP paid for itself in tires alone.

For me, the bragging rights of an extra 10 horsepower in my 900 pound Touring bike are far less important to me than being able to confidently ride 25-30,000 miles a year, and not have to worry about having to shell out a pile of money in repairs.

[JoeVibe]

Wow! Thanks 05Train! That's a lot of work with it still under warranty! At some point would you expect the bike to get reliable or do you think these are "normal" wear issues? Obviously tires are wear items, especially with the miles you put on your bike in a year, but what about the other stuff? I'm more in the 5k-10k/year range, at least until I retire.

For me, the bragging rights of an extra 10 horsepower in my 900 pound Touring bike are far less important to me than being able to confidently ride 25-30,000 miles a year, and not have to worry about having to shell out a pile of money in repairs.

I'm actually pretty happy with the power my bike has. I'm thinking cams because I've been reading about better mileage, cooler running temps, more low end torque, easier starting..... that kind of performance improvements. And, I haven't read a lot of positive stuff about the SE 255's at all.

[YELLOWBIRD]

Here's my take,

I too have the ESP package on my 09 Roadie.

IT HAS already paid for itself two fold for me.

Only upgrade is a true Stage 1 Fullsac sleeper kit. Planning ahead, I went ahead and purchased

a set of Andrews 54H cams (and gaskets) to upgrade to the Stage II sleeper kit and get some

Head work.

Fast forward, I still have the Andrew's cams sitting on a shelf in my office!


With all the problems with these 110 motors, too much electrical and much, much more

stuff that can go wrong that is well above my pay scale, I'm keeping it simple stupid with

the Stage 1 only. (at least for now, while I still have the ESP  )

I just like to ride and not worry about anything else going wrong with my scoot. Not just locally

but while traveling the country as well.

Good Luck,

YB

[doublerunner]

I have the same bike as you Joe. I too bought the 7 year esp with tire and wheel. Have already had one tire replaced. I have done some mods, including replacing the headers and exhaust with aftermarket and removing the catalytic converter and having it dyno'd. I am considering the cams. The 255's the bike comes with are a good torque cam and pull well. But they can always be better I suppose.

My dealer (the owner himself) has said he would never deny any repairs on the esp if they thought it might get rejected because of mods. He stated he would put the original cams back in before it got rejected. And he and many others would not reject the esp because of cam work. BUT some dealers might. So if you're travelling away from your home dealership alot then this is something to think about. But I am not going to let that little bit of worry stop me from  making the bike as I want it to be

And as Jerry said, some dealers may just be promising the world to sell the esp. But I got my esp from my dealer at a great discount so I don't think that was his motivation. And if he does lie to me then I will take my business elsewhere. I don't think that will happen, my dealer has a great reputation

Just be careful what you choose as replacement cams. The current 255's are pretty good. I would be interested to know what you are considering. Me? I am considering the S&S 551's

Tight lines
DR