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[willyB]

Harley's record with TBW is quite good, you need to remember that there's a tiny percentage of owners on the forums, and for the most part, people use them to talk/ask/complain about problems.  You also have to wonder how many of the posted TBW "failures" are due to a DIY handlebar install, or some other ham-handed modification.

Throttle cables bind, stretch, and break, and they don't offer the precision of TBW.  No way I'd switch back, which is good, as there's no way to do so with the current ECM programming.

you don't happen to work for Harley do you? As many times as people here have complained to the secret Harley complaint number I wouldn't be surprised if they had a plant. 

[pj57]

Thanks for the responses...I found the HD service bulletin (hyperlink below).  My question is, why no campaign to deal with the "fretting" pins?  It would be nice if HD was proactive in this case rather than reactive, particularly when something as critical as the throttle that is involved.  05Train, I agree the folks on forum and discussion boards do indeed represent a small percentage of the Harleydom who vent their problems.  And while I'm not sure what HD's record is for the TBW, I can tell you in my case the failure could have been catastrophic.  In addition, the NHTSA has received several consumer complaints, and mine will be added this evening.  Thus far they have not initiated a formal investigation.  In my opinion, the tech missed the boat when he did not even consider service bulletin. Honestly, I don't think he even knows it exists.  That's why I have forwarded the bulletin to the dealership because sometimes they need to be educated about things that should be obvious.  My 2011 FLTRUSE has stock handlebars and just shy of 7K miles.  Wonder how many hours I will be billed for diagnosing and correcting this problem? I will let you know how this turns out.  

 http://www.scribd.com/doc/55139820/2008-Later-Touring-TT418-1

[dlaws01]

you don't happen to work for Harley do you? As many times as people here have complained to the secret Harley complaint number I wouldn't be surprised if they had a plant. 

You're probably right.  Seems that there is a pattern of defending the moco regardless of what the problem is.   

[scttgr8]

The ECM MAY be covered under warranty still  depending on how many miles you may have.  Her is a guideline to what the Emissions Warranty will cover. There is a difference the between 49 States and California coverage mandated by state laws. These guidelines cover mechanical/operational failures only (not cosmetic).
49-States “What is Covered”

[05Train]

you don't happen to work for Harley do you? As many times as people here have complained to the secret Harley complaint number I wouldn't be surprised if they had a plant.  

Not hardly.  I do understand the need for people to complain in groups though.

Sorry guys, but of the hundreds of thousands of TBW Harleys sold, there's a handful of complaints on the forums.  That's not an epidemic.

You want to gripe about something that the Mothership has screwed up?  Lets talk crankshafts, lifters, stereos, or cam bearings.  

FWIW, I'm sure that the OP's TBW failure was a pants-crapping experience, and in no way do I mean to minimize that.

[Coyote.]

You want to gripe about something that the Mothership has screwed up?  Lets talk crankshafts, lifters, stereos, or cam bearings.  

Or the POS 110 motor. 

[05Train]

Or the POS 110 motor. 

I figured it'd ba bad form to go there on this forum....

[JR]

Thanks for the responses...I found the HD service bulletin (hyperlink below).  My question is, why no campaign to deal with the "fretting" pins?  It would be nice if HD was proactive in this case rather than reactive, particularly when something as critical as the throttle that is involved.  05Train, I agree the folks on forum and discussion boards do indeed represent a small percentage of the Harleydom who vent their problems.  And while I'm not sure what HD's record is for the TBW, I can tell you in my case the failure could have been catastrophic.  In addition, the NHTSA has received several consumer complaints, and mine will be added this evening.  Thus far they have not initiated a formal investigation.  In my opinion, the tech missed the boat when he did not even consider service bulletin. Honestly, I don't think he even knows it exists.  That's why I have forwarded the bulletin to the dealership because sometimes they need to be educated about things that should be obvious.  My 2011 FLTRUSE has stock handlebars and just shy of 7K miles.  Wonder how many hours I will be billed for diagnosing and correcting this problem? I will let you know how this turns out.  
 http://www.scribd.com/doc/55139820/2008-Later-Touring-TT418-1

I would have a sit down with the service manager or GM. I wouldn't pay for any work previously performed especially if it turns out to be the fretting of the pin in the bulletin you sent them. Before I troubleshoot a problem at work I always research to see if anything out on the problem I'm sent to. There are constant updates and corrections so even if you find the problem and say replace it with a sensor that is outdated, you are only temporarily correcting the problem.

 

[pj57]

Great advice JR...I will be speaking to one or both.  According to the service advisor, the dealer already ate the ECM on the mis-diagnosis since it was programmed to my bike and cannot be used on another. Sort of like the race tuner module? Not sure if that's true, but right now I haven't been billed for any work that has been performed, except for the initial $95 for diagnosis labor (1 hour). Given the fact the tech spent most of Saturday on my bike and gained minimal income for himself or the dealership, I'm a bit leary they'll be out for my blood so I will definitely be staying on top of this. Unlike JR's research approach, my tech seems to be so reliant on the codes the computer is giving him. He never saw any codes associated with the TCA, etc.  He only saw the code for replace the ECM which didn't work. After reinstalling the old ECM, he started the bike, twisted the throttle and the bike revved up.  In his mind, the throttle problem was solved.  He did inform me, however, that the bike did throw an error code for the compression releases.  WTF???  I won't go there, but the comp releases were replaced about a year ago under warranty.  That time, my bike was laid up in the shop a couple of weeks at another as they tried to find the problem.  Here we go again with that problem on top of the the throttle issues.  Might as well start looking for a backup bike for my ride to Atlanta in a few weeks. PJ

[Coyote.]

The ECM can be used on another bike. 

[grc]

Great advice JR...I will be speaking to one or both.  According to the service advisor, the dealer already ate the ECM on the mis-diagnosis since it was programmed to my bike and cannot be used on another. Sort of like the race tuner module? Not sure if that's true, but right now I haven't been billed for any work that has been performed, except for the initial $95 for diagnosis labor (1 hour). Given the fact the tech spent most of Saturday on my bike and gained minimal income for himself or the dealership, I'm a bit leary they'll be out for my blood so I will definitely be staying on top of this. Unlike JR's research approach, my tech seems to be so reliant on the codes the computer is giving him. He never saw any codes associated with the TCA, etc.  He only saw the code for replace the ECM which didn't work. After reinstalling the old ECM, he started the bike, twisted the throttle and the bike revved up.  In his mind, the throttle problem was solved.  He did inform me, however, that the bike did throw an error code for the compression releases.  WTF???  I won't go there, but the comp releases were replaced about a year ago under warranty.  That time, my bike was laid up in the shop a couple of weeks at another as they tried to find the problem.  Here we go again with that problem on top of the the throttle issues.  Might as well start looking for a backup bike for my ride to Atlanta in a few weeks. PJ

If you have another dealership you can go to, perhaps you should do so.  These people don't sound terribly competent.  It's your choice of course, but since we are talking about a safety related defect that could get you killed, I just assume you would want someone working on it who actually has a clue.

If I were you I'd contact the MoCo and explain you have a safety related defect and you would like their assistance in having it resolved.  First, since the bike is only 3 weeks out of warranty you would appreciate it if they would cover this with a goodwill adjustment.  Second, since you nearly got run down in traffic due to this problem, and the dealer you took the bike to hasn't a clue, you would like them to suggest a qualified shop or provide tech assistance to the one your bike is at.

If you would like to help others with the same kind of issues, definitely go to the NHTSA website and submit a complaint as well.  They don't get involved in individual cases, but if enough Harley riders would contact them they would have the data necessary to initiate a defect analysis and if warranted a safety recall.  Harley hasn't seen fit to issue a real Service Bulletin on this problem, just a Tech Tip, and of course they never recalled any of the bikes either.  They have a history of ignoring problems and letting customers deal with them, so I wouldn't hold my breath thinking they would ever acknowledge the problems or do a recall on their own.

Jerry

[joe_lyons50023]

The ECM can be used on another bike. 

This is true I do it a lot.  Digital tech allows the vin to be reprogrammed. I sorry that you are having to deal with a sub par tech. but I hope he is learning quickly to not always trust the guided diag. of digital tech when it says to replace ecm.

[pj57]

So here we are four days later and the service department has gone full circle. They told me they checked all possible connectors and thought the problem was identified. Apparently, a wire (or wires) on the ECM had been crushed by the seat because the ECM mounting bracket was misaligned. After repairing the wires, no more codes appeared. Just to make sure, the service advisor said the bike would tested all day in all sorts of conditions. That was yesterday. Today i was told the engine light came back on and the corresponding codes are again pointing to the compression releases. The techs at the dealership are stumped...and a factory rep is coming in tomorrow to assist. Anyone have a K1600 or Goldwing I can borrow in a few weeks? All kidding aside(?), I know it's a machine and prone to break so I will suck it up and let the factory rep attempt to find the problem. Should be an interesting day. PJ

[sadunbar]

Not hardly.  I do understand the need for people to complain in groups though.

Sorry guys, but of the hundreds of thousands of TBW Harleys sold, there's a handful of complaints on the forums.  That's not an epidemic.

You want to gripe about something that the Mothership has screwed up?  Lets talk crankshafts, lifters, stereos, or cam bearings.  

FWIW, I'm sure that the OP's TBW failure was a pants-crapping experience, and in no way do I mean to minimize that.

It's been enough of an "epidemic" to cause the MOCO to generate a service bulletin regarding the fretting issue.  That speaks volumes as to the frequency of occurrence...  The MOCO would not issue a service bulletin if there were only a "handful of complaints on the forums"...

[SBB]

It's been enough of an "epidemic" to cause the MOCO to generate a service bulletin regarding the fretting issue.  That speaks volumes as to the frequency of occurrence...  The MOCO would not issue a service bulletin if there were only a "handful of complaints on the forums"...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55139820/2008-Later-Touring-TT418-1


SBB