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[110tHunDer]

Of course, an alternate scenario is that he goes anyway - without any expert guidance - and fares much worse.  All things equal, some training is better than none.

That's what I was thinking.  Ironhorse being out of town might not have been much of a deterrent.

[2k]

That's what I was thinking.  Ironhorse being out of town might not have been much of a deterrent.

There are always 2 sides and this one makes sense. If he wants/feels pressure to go, inexperience is not going to stop him.

[dlaws01]

There are always 2 sides and this one makes sense. If he wants/feels pressure to go, inexperience is not going to stop him.

Hey, you gotta start somewhere. Not everyone is going to seek formal training.  If he can get miles behind him without killing himself or someone else, more power to him. 

[Ironhorse]

I'm just going to throw this out there and ask,.....

If you really, Really, REALLY, wanted to fly a plane, you read all the books, manuals, and worked the flight simulators, would you jump into the cockpit, having never taken a formal hands on lesson, fire it up and take off for Alaska?

If your son or daughter really, Really, REALLY wanted to drive, they read all the DMV pamphlets, watched "Fast Car, Dead Driver" and other drivers ed videos, sat in on a Court Appointed DMV class for violators, but never ever got behind the wheel for a driving lesson, would you toss them the keys to your Covette and say, "Have fun at Spring Break?"

After all,...they really, Really, REALLY, want to do it.

Just asking,....

[TinSpinner]

I'm just going to throw this out there and ask,.....

If you really, Really, REALLY, wanted to fly a plane, you read all the books, manuals, and worked the flight simulators, would you jump into the cockpit, having never taken a formal hands on lesson, fire it up and take off for Alaska?

If your son or daughter really, Really, REALLY wanted to drive, they read all the DMV pamphlets, watched "Fast Car, Dead Driver" and other drivers ed videos, sat in on a Court Appointed DMV class for violators, but never ever got behind the wheel for a driving lesson, would you toss them the keys to your Covette and say, "Have fun at Spring Break?"

After all,...they really, Really, REALLY, want to do it.

Just asking,....

Very valid points. Unfortunately a lot of people think a motorcycle is not much more than a bicycle with a motor.

[dlaws01]

I'm just going to throw this out there and ask,.....

If you really, Really, REALLY, wanted to fly a plane, you read all the books, manuals, and worked the flight simulators, would you jump into the cockpit, having never taken a formal hands on lesson, fire it up and take off for Alaska?

If your son or daughter really, Really, REALLY wanted to drive, they read all the DMV pamphlets, watched "Fast Car, Dead Driver" and other drivers ed videos, sat in on a Court Appointed DMV class for violators, but never ever got behind the wheel for a driving lesson, would you toss them the keys to your Covette and say, "Have fun at Spring Break?"

After all,...they really, Really, REALLY, want to do it.

Just asking,....

You can read all the book and pamphlets and watch as many videos as you want but there is no substitute for having your rear end in the saddle, be it on a motorcycle or in an airplane.  And just for general knowledge, Charles Lindbergh got into an airplane solo and taught himself to fly and we all know what he later accomplished.  I agree that education and training in any discipline is a wise and good thing to have but to suggest that someone learning to ride a motorcycle without a "professional Trainer" is akin to putting someone in an airplane without any flight lessons is not comparing apples to apples.

[woode]

I'm just going to throw this out there and ask,.....

If you really, Really, REALLY, wanted to fly a plane, you read all the books, manuals, and worked the flight simulators, would you jump into the cockpit, having never taken a formal hands on lesson, fire it up and take off for Alaska?

If your son or daughter really, Really, REALLY wanted to drive, they read all the DMV pamphlets, watched "Fast Car, Dead Driver" and other drivers ed videos, sat in on a Court Appointed DMV class for violators, but never ever got behind the wheel for a driving lesson, would you toss them the keys to your Covette and say, "Have fun at Spring Break?"

After all,...they really, Really, REALLY, want to do it.

Just asking,....
[/quote
IronHorse, you make a good point from your perspective.  No, I would not give a motorcycle to an untrained person, but a dealer would have no qualms about it.  Plus, whether or not he passed the course, I assume that he still had a permit which gives him the right to ride.  So, whether you helped him or not, he was still gonna do what he wanted to do.  Heck, that's how most of us learned to ride anyway.  That said, there's no substitute for quality rider training to go along with the experience.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I'm just going to throw this out there and ask,.....

If you really, Really, REALLY, wanted to fly a plane, you read all the books, manuals, and worked the flight simulators, would you jump into the cockpit, having never taken a formal hands on lesson, fire it up and take off for Alaska?

If your son or daughter really, Really, REALLY wanted to drive, they read all the DMV pamphlets, watched "Fast Car, Dead Driver" and other drivers ed videos, sat in on a Court Appointed DMV class for violators, but never ever got behind the wheel for a driving lesson, would you toss them the keys to your Covette and say, "Have fun at Spring Break?"

After all,...they really, Really, REALLY, want to do it.

Just asking,....

You are not allowed to just jump in any plane and fly it. You have to have a pilot's license from the FAA, you have to pass a biennial certification, you have to be rated for that type of aircraft, you have to have a certain number of flying hours, you have to hold an IFR rating if you are going to fly in IFR conditions, etc.

For an auto, you have to pass a written exam and a driving exam. Same to get a MC license. But we all know that simply passing an exam does not give one the riding ability nor experience to safely handle any motorcycle... Much less a H-D.

What happened to this gentleman was tragic. More riding experience and attending a formal riding course for training, plus more practice, might well have prevented this accident. In any case, it's too late for him, and it's awful for his surviving wife.

Ken

[kansaskim47]

I agree with Ironhorse.

If he was going to rent a bike, one of the requirements is a valid motorcycle endorsement so his lack of range experience is moot. 

Of course if he was going to buy a bike, he doesn't need an endorsement, just enough money to buy it.

I have often thought that graduated licences like are required in Europe or Japan might make some sense.

I know people that refuse to countersteer because they can lean much better. I tell them that if it is hard to steer, they are doing it wrong.

Kim

[Ironhorse]

I know people that refuse to countersteer because they can lean much better. I tell them that if it is hard to steer, they are doing it wrong.

Kim,

I get a lot of folks in class who see me or Roger or Josh ride the demo and then say "My bike won't do that". Then I get on their bike and ride the exercise.
The look on their face,..priceless.

Mark

[red ben59]

I'm thinking ; no experiance, new bike, non abs, object focus, locks up rear brake in a panic. Very tragic for this man and family.