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[mark]

The new Indians may be great bikes... But they have a WHOLE LOT TO LEARN about making a fairing that doesn't look like a friggin' ABORTION...

Oh, and saddlebags, too...

I'll be keepin' the Honey Badger for the time bein'...

Ken

The worst part is the fairing...North Ga Hawg nailed it...it is an abortion.  Indian came so close to hitting a home run....here's my fix:

1. Redesign fairing, lose the chrome blob below the windshield, get rid of the Goldwing turn signals.
2. Redesign saddlebags...hinges and lid.  Make saddlebags extended so they partially cover the exhaust.
3. Trim down the front fender on the Chieftain.

[North Georgia Hawg]

The worst part is the fairing...North Ga Hawg nailed it...it is an abortion.  Indian came so close to hitting a home run....here's my fix:

1. Redesign fairing, lose the chrome blob below the windshield, get rid of the Goldwing turn signals.
2. Redesign saddlebags...hinges and lid.  Make saddlebags extended so they partially cover the exhaust.
3. Trim down the front fender on the Chieftain.

NO! The crazy swooping front fenders are actually the one styling point I like best about Indians... I've always loved that look for some reason.

I am not put off by the saddlebags nearly as much as I am with the fairing. They would look better stretched, but I don't think Indian is really caring much about adopting Harley styling... and I can appreciate that. If they style things too much like Harley, they'll be accused of being copycats. They do need their own style... just not that fairing!

Ken

[CVO Brian]

Ken,

If you saw the bags in person you would be put off trust me. And in case we haven't noticed, the round cars went out as well. Look at all the new American models, back to strait and angular, Mustang,Camaro,Challenger etc...

From the side view this bike wouldn't look to bad if they had flattened out those lids. But all that mess on the fairing just kills everything. And of course Polaris is going to say that the 111 will destroy the 120R in every gear. I doubt it. Lets see if this first year motor will even work,let alone smoke any Harley motor.
Polaris has balls though, putting a 23K base price on this bike. If you think stock harley grips and mirrors and pegs are bad, wait until you see these. The grips are identical to the shifter pegs on stock Harley's.

[Midnight Rider]

Ken,

If you saw the bags in person you would be put off trust me. And in case we haven't noticed, the round cars went out as well. Look at all the new American models, back to strait and angular, Mustang,Camaro,Challenger etc...

From the side view this bike wouldn't look to bad if they had flattened out those lids. But all that mess on the fairing just kills everything. And of course Polaris is going to say that the 111 will destroy the 120R in every gear. I doubt it. Lets see if this first year motor will even work,let alone smoke any Harley motor.
Polaris has balls though, putting a 23K base price on this bike. If you think stock harley grips and mirrors and pegs are bad, wait until you see these. The grips are identical to the shifter pegs on stock Harley's.

Go to the HD website and pull up a standard Street Glide, then add the upcharges for a color other than black, Security System/ABS, Freight, Cruise Control...I come up with a base of $22,694.  And that's with a 103" motor, black switch housings, rubber grips, a passenger seat that is pretty much useless other than for bar hopping with your BSR.  The Indian comes standard with cruise, ABS, chrome switch housings, security system, choice of colors (as long as it's Black, Red, or Blue  )  PLUS, it has a 111" engine.   If you added the items to a SG to make it equivalent, and the bits of chrome, AND the 110 "kit"....you'd have well over $26K in the bike.  So, I don't think the price point is out of line at all.  One may not care for the styling, but I don't think there's a valid comparison between the two bikes with regard to features/functions...the Indian has HD beat, hands down.  Oh, and I forgot about the Bluetooth connectivity, and the 5 year coverage with unlimited miles.  So add a 3 year ESP to the HD, and the "stock" SG starts creeping up towards the mid to upper 20's in short order.  And you'll also have to buy at least one other windshield in all probability.

Time will tell about the engine performance/durability, suspension (though I SERIOUSLY doubt anything could be WORSE than a HD), and how everything functions in the real world.  And the new "muscle cars" are trying to carry over design characteristics from the old days, but the vast majority of current vehicles are not what I would consider to be "angular"...very few creased pieces of sheet metal/plastic on a modern vehicle.

[mark]

Everyone keeps comparing the Chieftain to the SG.  I believe a better comparison would be to an Electra Glide.  The SG is the "sports car" of the HD touring family.  I don't get that sports car feel with the Chieftain - it looks too traditional, except for the fairing, which looks to have been designed by Team Goldwing or NASA.  I hate to keep harping on the fairing, but I'm at a loss to explain how that design made it off the drawing board.

The Chieftain would rock with some Milwaukee Baggers and a batwing.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Everyone keeps comparing the Chieftain to the SG.  I believe a better comparison would be to an Electra Glide.  The SG is the "sports car" of the HD touring family.  I don't get that sports car feel with the Chieftain - it looks too traditional, except for the fairing, which looks to have been designed by Team Goldwing or NASA.  I hate to keep harping on the fairing, but I'm at a loss to explain how that design made it off the drawing board.

The Chieftain would rock with some Milwaukee Baggers and a batwing.

The Chieftain's lack of lowers and a Tour Pak make it more directly comparable to a Street Glide in my mind. But, it does have some features from an Ultra. Hard to make a model by model comparison, as it seems to sit somewhere between a SG and an Ultra.

I am not surprised that it doesn't match up very directly to a specific Harley model. In fact, I would be surprised if it DID match up to a specific Harley model.

For example, it also has CVO-like chromed front forks - which no non-CVO Harleys come with. Chrome forks will set a non-CVO rider back about $800 or more installed!

Ken

[CVO Brian]

I dont think the maker oF Jet ski's ( Polaris ) should be compared to a Harley Davidson in any way. But Midnight, thats your call brother. This so called 111 motor is untested anywhere and is a prototype. Harley Davidson has been making Motorcycles for 110 years. I was just hoping Indian would do a better job and maybe make Harley add a couple more of those features like ABS, Security as standard. But after seeing this Bike I'm afraid all it did was solidify Harley Davidsons' position as the only true American made Motorcycle Company. And as far as the warranty, I think they have to offer a warranty like this just to get people to buy it like Hyundai did because they have no history what so ever. At the end of the day, All Harleys to buy brand new are way overpriced because it's a want like a Boat and not a neccesity. I bought my CVO new but I think I will buy one or two year old from now on and save the money and let the guy before me mod it some, lets face it, Most mod's are cosmetic and we will never see that money again.

[Twolanerider]

I dont think the maker oF Jet ski's ( Polaris ) should be compared to a Harley Davidson in any way.

Harley has sold golf carts, boats, scooters, bicycles and servicars.  Not to mention all the schlock from beer mugs to condoms they allow their name to be pasted on.  So a differentiated manufacturing base is hardly a knock.  In fact a broader manufacturing experience allowing wider experience and foundations when all done well should be a benefit.

But Midnight, thats your call brother. This so called 111 motor is untested anywhere and is a prototype. Harley Davidson has been making Motorcycles for 110 years.

And yet with all that experience they still can't make a genuinely reliable current model performance engine with anything approaching modernity in fuel management and engine controls.  Of course they're limited here because they keep choosing to attempt to band-aid decades old basic design premises.  So maybe starting from scratch using modern analytics, system and designs isn't a bad idea?

[Midnight Rider]

Here's a pretty good review of the three models:   http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2013/08/12/i-rode-the-3-new-indian-chief-models/

It's also interesting that the guy mentions that the Polaris folks said there are "other models" coming.

Brian...this is not a contest to see "who's is bigger, HD or Indian" but merely a comparison of features and bang for the buck.  And don't misunderstand me, I am a HD fan, but not blindly devoted to the brand, particularly in light of what's happened in recent years with quality and reliability.  Certainly, nothing will ever look and sound quite like a HD, but there is a down side to that as well, and that is limited innovation out of fear of losing their blindly loyal customer base.  The sad part is that they are losing it anyway as Baby Boomers age and stop riding, and younger riders are NOT going to tolerate having to purchase a bike of whatever model, then turn around and spend a few more thousand just to make it run right, sound right, be comfortable, handle better, etc.  Not to mention that they will not be happy campers to learn, after the fact, that their 25K + bike has mechanical components which may cause serious engine issues after 30K miles or so.  Certainly not all of them, but it is an area of concern and will not be tolerated by younger buyers.  The demographics are changing right under HD's nose, and I fear they are going to be caught behind the curve.  I don't think there is a single person on this forum who would remotely be happy purchasing a 35K automobile and having some of the issues present in a 35K bike from HD.  I'm nearly 62 years old, grew up having to work on my cars in the "bad old days", and sometimes enjoy tinkering with the HD's I've owned, but I would never consider purchasing a vehicle these days that required the kind of maintenance I used to perform on older vehicles...like many, I want to get in, turn it on, and drive it...perform routine maintenance, of course, but most people these days would have a come apart fit if their car/truck had to be in the shop for days/weeks because of chitty design like the current issues with HD valve trains, crankshafts, cam bearings, and manufacturing tolerances.  There is absolutely no reason HD cannot build a rock solid bike, other than a "we don't care because we don't have to" corporate philosophy.

The point being: While the 2014 Indian bikes may not blow everyone's skirt up, they are, IMO, the first bike to come along in a long time that has an iconic brand name, a company backing it that has extremely deep pockets, and a desire to maintain key design elements while "modernizing" the bike at the same time.  If nothing else, I hope that it gives HD a serious wake up and smell the coffee slap in the face.  That'll be good for everyone in the long run.

[Twolanerider]

My fear is that you're optimistic TC; in that Mother Harley may have some immediate and visceral reaction to some perceived new threat from Polaris.  Based on nothing more than past behavior and personal feeling I think they'll do nothing.  Victory never got their attention.  Nor did it really make a dent.  Harley will presume the same, and behave accordingly.  They'll continue to do so until damage has been done rather than act proactively.  It's just their way.  

The following is image of a herald.  The lass had arrived to tell Harley Board members of the new Indian motorcycles.

[Twolanerider]

If there are then early indications that the new Indian is a reliable and well performing motorcycle that suggests any downward pressure on Harley sales the following is the Board reaction to that presentation:

[Midnight Rider]

 

[20 gauge]

But Midnight Rider, you can always buy one of those really neat extended service contracts if you doubt your H D's mechanical integrity! 

[Grizzly]

But Midnight Rider, you can always buy one of those really neat extended service contracts if you doubt your H D's mechanical integrity! 

With the release of the 14's next week, possibly H-D will simply add $1,500 to the price of a bike and include a 5 year warranty to bring them equal to the "new" competition on the block?  After all my dealer informed me that the SEUC will be a lot more this year, but there's some exciting changes coming???

[mark]

Midnight Rider states: The point being: While the 2014 Indian bikes may not blow everyone's skirt up, they are, IMO, the first bike to come along in a long time that has an iconic brand name, a company backing it that has extremely deep pockets, and a desire to maintain key design elements while "modernizing" the bike at the same time.

The 2014 Vintage and Classic did blow my skirt up....what's disappointing is the near miss with the Chieftain.  If looking for a retro-type bike, the Classic or Vintage is the best bang for the buck.   If looking for a bike that doesn't know what it is, then the Chieftain is the ticket.

Surely Indian will realize they can't make every bike a retro, and they can't mix and match retro with modern.   As N. GA Hog said, the Chieftain is an abortion.