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[Randy C]

In 2009 I bought a SERG like many of you ,I spent a lot of money not only on the bike but on cosmetics and of course trying to get it to run not so hot.After 3 different tuners and 2 different products the bike has always run hot.Now I know what your going to say,they all run hot ,true but after buying the extended warranty for a few years I was told the bike was fine and it would never run any cooler.Now here comes the twist after multiple trips to the Dealer they finally found out that the o ring for the oil pump was installed incorrectly from the MOCO. The dealer fixed it under warranty and sent me on my way.After 400 miles I noticed it used a quart of oil.I contacted the dealer and customer care. My claim was denied by MOCO tech because I had installed tuners on it to make it run cooler and they would not help in the cost of repairing it at all.I explained the o ring situation and their reply was that's what warranties are for. At a cost of 5500.00 for engine and compensator sprocket upgrade I am not very happy! Opinions welcome ,Am I wrong here or did I get screwed Ps I'm thinking about having my HD  tattoo covered up with a Goldwing tattoo lol If their is such a thing.

[timo482]

they say right in the paperwork - in the sales contract - in the warranty statement - in the esp contract - and on the parts boxes for hop up parts - and on all the tuner boxes i have ever had in my hands.

if you change ANYTHING its all on your dime from then on. if you run it stone stock from day one - the esp will cover it till its 7 years old and anything that breaks they will pay for.

we know its true because they often put new engines in high milage bikes that break that are stock.

its been this way for at least 10 years - i think about 6 or 7 years ago they started only listing street legal / epa legal/ warranty ok parts in the main p&a catalog - and put all the rest of the parts in a "race use only" catalog that says on most every page that those parts will affect the warranty and are not street legal.

before that it was pretty much no big deal - .....

that said - in 79 or 80 i remember a guy trying to get warranty repair on a new sportster in ames iowa, the dealer found a speeding ticket for "drag racing" in the paper and they him pay the engine rebuild out of pocket because they said racing voided the warranty.

at the time some folks were all bent - but i saw the guy doing a hole shots - he did a hole shot at a stoplight with me [i refused to go along with it] and the engine blew up and the moco refused to pay for it..... he ran straight pipes - in fact every bike i ever saw the guy on had straight pipes... i always ran baffles because the shop told me that baffles made it run better....

so i guess its really not that new that they won't fix modified bikes....

it still sucks no matter how you cut it when they blow up.... I've blown up a sportster twice and a shovel once... just sucks and really messes up the checkbook.

bummer

to

[2k]

One thing you have probably already got figured, once the MoCo has denied a warranty claim the chance of them reversing is remote, I know this doesn't help, just had to say it. If my '09 ever lays down its S&S for me and never look back. Good luck on your decision.

[grc]

A 2009 motorcycle, assuming it was purchased sometime in 2008 or 2009, is at least two years OUT of factory warranty.  So I guess I don't understand why you think the warranty should cover a repair at this time.  If what you really mean is that the ESP refused to pay for this latest repair, then you need to say ESP and not warranty (two different things).

ESP is not a warranty, it is a service contract that is not regulated the way a factory warranty is.  So you are at the mercy of what the contract says, and if you read the contract you will find that any modifications can be used by the ESP company to deny coverage.  They have in fact been turning down a lot of big repairs in recent years for minor mods. 

Jerry

[FlaHeatWave]

In 2009 I bought a SERG like many of you ,I spent a lot of money not only on the bike but on cosmetics and of course trying to get it to run not so hot.After 3 different tuners and 2 different products the bike has always run hot.Now I know what your going to say,they all run hot ,true but after buying the extended warranty for a few years I was told the bike was fine and it would never run any cooler.Now here comes the twist after multiple trips to the Dealer they finally found out that the o ring for the oil pump was installed incorrectly from the MOCO. The dealer fixed it under warranty and sent me on my way.After 400 miles I noticed it used a quart of oil.I contacted the dealer and customer care. My claim was denied by MOCO tech because I had installed tuners on it to make it run cooler and they would not help in the cost of repairing it at all.I explained the o ring situation and their reply was that's what warranties are for. At a cost of 5500.00 for engine and compensator sprocket upgrade I am not very happy! Opinions welcome ,Am I wrong here or did I get screwed Ps I'm thinking about having my HD  tattoo covered up with a Goldwing tattoo lol If their is such a thing.

My deal was very similar to yours, my Dealer replaced / rebuilt the whole motor, everything but the chrome covers, to stock, to get the ESP reinstated, then the MoCo inspector ( who does not even start the motor during the inspection) tells my Dealer that I have to run the stock pipes and no tune, I'm pissed.

[TN]

I feel yer pain Randy. The dealer and their representatives has allot to do with these kinda decisions. IMO. If the only symptom is oil use, take the cash and rebuild the engine using quality aftermarket parts.



Good Luck


TN

[2k]

I feel yer pain Randy. The dealer and their representatives has allot to do with these kinda decisions. IMO. If the only symptom is oil use, take the cash and rebuild the engine using quality aftermarket parts.



Good Luck


TN

Also remember, if it is only oil comsumption, $5k will buy a lot of oil.......assuming its not smoking badly or blowing it out on the scoot behind you!!!!!

[Trapperdog]

An interesting part of the esp contract is they state that changing pipes, engine components or even wheels can void the contract, but there is no mention of altering the a/f ratio via piggyback device or ECM changes. They consider tuners a part of the engine.  My rod bearing failure was also denied due to having a PCIII

[grc]

An interesting part of the esp contract is they state that changing pipes, engine components or even wheels can void the contract, but there is no mention of altering the a/f ratio via piggyback device or ECM changes. They consider tuners a part of the engine.  My rod bearing failure was also denied due to having a PCIII

This has been true for a long time, but it seems it's only been the past few years that the ESP folks have really enforced the terms of the contract.  I've posted before that I believe they have seen huge increases in major engine failures that have jacked up their costs, and whoever is running that company has decided to stop the financial bleeding by sending out inspectors with instructions to specifically look for anything they can use to deny a claim.  One person posted sometime in the past year or two that the inspector actually denied his claim due to a nonstandard oil filter.  That one really takes the prize for total BS.

Anyhow, this sort of information is never part of the sales pitch when Harley and the dealership and the ESP folks want your money up front.  This stuff is one more reason to be very careful about handing over a couple grand for a service contract if you plan to do any sort of modifications beyond adding a new chrome doodad.  You are already taking a risk just buying a Harley, and now it's even a risk buying an ESP.  At some point folks need to start thinking about these things before the sale, not after the failures.

JMHO - Jerry

[Randy C]

I appreciate all the feedback and most of it is on the mark.One could argue if the MOCO sells and installs these products with the MOCO name on it ,it shouldn't void the warranty.My biggest issue is the dealer repaired the o ring under the same warranty that has been expired since I decided not to pay for another esp ,but decided they would not cover the damage from it under warranty because the DEALER installed the TTS tuner.Your right when you say the MOCO is finding ways to deny claims.Live and learn I guess ,but it still doesn't taste good! 

[FlaHeatWave]

I appreciate all the feedback and most of it is on the mark.One could argue if the MOCO sells and installs these products with the MOCO name on it ,it shouldn't void the warranty.My biggest issue is the dealer repaired the o ring under the same warranty that has been expired since I decided not to pay for another esp ,but decided they would not cover the damage from it under warranty because the DEALER installed the TTS tuner.Your right when you say the MOCO is finding ways to deny claims.Live and learn I guess ,but it still doesn't taste good! 

And the stupid thing about it, richening the AFR is so much better on the motor.
They are becoming assholes lately.

[FLTRCVO]

In 2009 I bought a SERG like many of you ,I spent a lot of money not only on the bike but on cosmetics and of course trying to get it to run not so hot.After 3 different tuners and 2 different products the bike has always run hot.Now I know what your going to say,they all run hot ,true but after buying the extended warranty for a few years I was told the bike was fine and it would never run any cooler.Now here comes the twist after multiple trips to the Dealer they finally found out that the o ring for the oil pump was installed incorrectly from the MOCO. The dealer fixed it under warranty and sent me on my way.After 400 miles I noticed it used a quart of oil.I contacted the dealer and customer care. My claim was denied by MOCO tech because I had installed tuners on it to make it run cooler and they would not help in the cost of repairing it at all.I explained the o ring situation and their reply was that's what warranties are for. At a cost of 5500.00 for engine and compensator sprocket upgrade I am not very happy! Opinions welcome , wrong here or did I get screwed Ps I'm thinking about having my HD  tattoo covered up with a Goldwing tattoo lol If their is such a thing.

I am the person who endured the 2007 110 Harley Davidson experiment, within 15 months I received 5 motors due to the Motor Company not performing any significant R & D on the power plant. My dealer installed my Race Tuner, however, he was savvy enough to take care of his customer every single time, thus, the Race Tuner was not an issue on any of the motors being replaced. For those inquiring minds, the dealer mapped each motor to the tuner every time also under the initial map and dyno fee.

[Para Bellum]

"whoever is running that company has decided to stop the financial bleeding by sending out inspectors with instructions to specifically look for anything they can use to deny a claim.

JMHO - Jerry

I asked the local dealer's Finance & Insurance salesman: "Who administers and underwrites the ESP?"; was told it's the MoCo.  I don't have an ESP, so I don't have documents to verify...but IF it's true, then MoCo has even less incentive to improve quality, since they make even more $$$ by cutting quality, urging us to buy ESP, and then denying ESP claims for chicken-$hit reasons.

[TN]

I asked the local dealer's Finance & Insurance salesman: "Who administers and underwrites the ESP?"; was told it's the MoCo.  I don't have an ESP, so I don't have documents to verify...but IF it's true, then MoCo has even less incentive to improve quality, since they make even more $$$ by cutting quality, urging us to buy ESP, and then denying ESP claims for chicken-$hit reasons.

that $hit rolls downhill for sure. 

I went to make a visit to the chief of moco who has a house locally, the guard at the gate told me no motorcycles allowed.

there is a moral to the statements above. Lesson learned.


TN

[Black Diamond]

that $hit rolls downhill for sure. 

I went to make a visit to the chief of moco who has a house locally, the guard at the gate told me no motorcycles allowed.

there is a moral to the statements above. Lesson learned.


TN

Man I wish I had witnessed your conversation with the gate guard.  Priceless for sure! 

As to the metter at hand.  It really comes down to your dealer and how they conduct business.

JW