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[willyB]

wish i knew the fix, when i was at the rally i stopped at black hills HD and talked with some one from BAKER, he stated that HD made these newer compensators heaver witch was not the thing to do, and thats making there issues worse (noise). also says they are working on making their own but no idea when it would be for sale. im on my second one this season and my factory warranty just ended so hope BAKER has theirs out sooner than later 
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I think I have a fix and Harley won't like it.

I'm beginning to think its time for my attorney to get involved.

A major part of the drivetrain assembly that has required replacement twice in 27,000 miles and is now being looked at again without the dealer knowing what to do constitutes a rider safety issue.

I think I would to find out what happens to the rear tire when the primary assembly locks up at 70 mph!

Anybody have the REAL Harley address?

[grc]

Harley-Davidson, Inc.
3700 W Juneau Ave
Milwaukee, WI 53208

Phone Number: (414) 342-4680
Fax Number: (414) 343-4621
Website: http://harley-davidson.com

CEO: Keith E. Wandell
CFO: John A. Olin
COO: Lawrence G. Hund

[willyB]

Harley-Davidson, Inc.
3700 W Juneau Ave
Milwaukee, WI 53208

Phone Number: (414) 342-4680
Fax Number: (414) 343-4621
Website: http://harley-davidson.com

CEO: Keith E. Wandell
CFO: John A. Olin
COO: Lawrence G. Hund

Thanks!

[fastfreddy]

good luck WILLY, let me know if you get any where with this, i can get you my info on my replacements  if it helps? like i said first one 15k miles up dated one 5k miles (rode it 5k miles making so much noise it scared people when i started it) have about 1k miles on the latest one so far its quite.

[r0de_runr]

What is a "Failed Compensator"?  Rattles and clunks?

On my 09, I started having very hard starts and starter gears grinding.  Combination of poor comp and too much cranking compression (stage II SE255 cams, 103 CI and no comp releases).  They put on new left side under warranty, but I had to pay to put in manual comp releases.

My 13 103 and my 12 CVO 110 have not "failed" yet on the comp, but the 12 CVO does clunk a bit on shut down, but never a hard start.  16000 miles or so.

Comps don't fly apart do they?  catastrophic failure?  leave you stranded?

Greg

[willyB]

What is a "Failed Compensator"?  Rattles and clunks?

On my 09, I started having very hard starts and starter gears grinding.  Combination of poor comp and too much cranking compression (stage II SE255 cams, 103 CI and no comp releases).  They put on new left side under warranty, but I had to pay to put in manual comp releases.

My 13 103 and my 12 CVO 110 have not "failed" yet on the comp, but the 12 CVO does clunk a bit on shut down, but never a hard start.  16000 miles or so.

Comps don't fly apart do they?  catastrophic failure?  leave you stranded?

Greg

When the first comp went out on our way back from Yellowstone it sounded like somebody put a handful on bolts in the primary. Didn't come apart but was incredibly horrible sounding and definitely distracted me from focuses on riding a motorcycle safely. Fortunately we were 5 miles from home doing 40 mph. A survivable speed if a catastrophic failure did occur.

This compensator last about 10,000 miles or so and for the last few thousand would knock, growl and generally let you know there was something wrong. Again, this distraction pulled my attention away from operating the motorcycle safely.

The latest compensator lasted about 400 miles. At idle, easy rpm starts and off throttle deceleration it would knock. The best way to describe the knock is to hit a hammer on a solid wooded block. Again, distraction from the safe operation of the motorcycle.

Imagine sitting at a stop light and not focusing on the traffic surrounding you because your primary is making horrific sounds. Then the light changes and because you were distracted by the knocking in the primary you missed the guy coming from the left who ran a red light.

Do they "come apart"? I don't know the answer to that question but I don't want myself or my wife to find out.

This is where the safe operation of the motorcycle comes in. If a safe driver is continually distracted from the safe operation of the motorcycle by loud knocking mechanical failure noises when operating the motorcycle the likelyhood of an accident is increased because they are being distracted.

Look, let's just all face the fact the Harley has and has known about the repeated failures of their 3 designs over a few short years. Denying that in a court of law will be nearly impossible to defend.

Where are all the independent manufacturers on a design solution? I think we all know the answer to that one as well.

[willyB]

Finally got my bike back yesterday. Only rode it home about 20 miles but no knocking, so far. Actually seems like a pretty solid connection between my throttle hand and the rear wheel.

Here is what they did:

MOCO asked them to measure the crankshaft extension into the primary, measure the dimension of the unloaded compensator sprocket/spring pack assembly, measure the dimension of the bolt and the dimension "depth" of the bolt hole.

All of them were within spec individually but not in spec as a complete assembly so the dealer asked about the +/- tolerance of these parts and then challenged MOCO of the combined +/- tolerance. It appears that after a little debate MOCO sent the dealer several shims/washers to be used between the stator and the comp assembly.

I don't remember the thickness of the shims/washers but the dealer said that 3 of them put me right and spec but they added 1 more because they know/feel that the spring washer setup of the comp assembly will weaken over time.

The dealer is stoked to find a solution this comp problem and has ordered about 30 of these washers so they quit wasting their time taking these comps apart and putting them back together and not solving the problem.

I'll keep you guys up to date when I get a chance to put some miles on it.

[grc]

I was about to post and ask if they had replaced the spring pack on the last repair or just the main components, since it was knocking in only 400 miles.  Then I saw your last post, so I think I know the answer to my question.

The original compensator design for the new style primary (2006 Dyna, 2007 other BT's) had problems from day one due to inconsistent and generally weak spring tension, combined with insufficient travel of the actual compensator, thus the "bottoming out".  Some of the early "outhouse engineered" Band-Aid fixes involved adding shims to the springs to try to increase the tension, and in some cases that actually did relieve the symptoms for awhile.  Of course it didn't fix all the other designed in issues, but with Harley truly fixing a problem permanently doesn't seem to be high priority.  The SE version of the comp started out with it's own laundry list of design flaws, and after at least three revisions they still don't seem to be close to a truly robust design.  I find it funny that the aftermarket has already come out with a thrust bearing to replace the ill-conceived needle bearing thrust washer in the recent design.  If the entire issue, going on eight years now, didn't adversely affect so many people, the entire history of the late model H-D compensator would make for a humorous story and example of the incompetence at H-D.

Hopefully getting the spring pack tension and tolerance stack-up issues resolved will at least stop the knocking and bottoming.  Only time will tell if the other rapid wear issues have been adequately addressed in the most recent design.  Good luck.

Jerry

[fastfreddy]

willy, shimming the spring pack is one of the fixes that was mentioned to me by the BAKER representative i spoke with, but when i took it in for the last replacement i told the service writer about this (and of course i got that look) any how i noticed yesterday a squawk noise coming from the primary when leaving a stop a lill hard/fast. so if you have any part numbers for these shims on your invoice could you pass them on to me, thanks in advance.       

[willyB]

willy, shimming the spring pack is one of the fixes that was mentioned to me by the BAKER representative i spoke with, but when i took it in for the last replacement i told the service writer about this (and of course i got that look) any how i noticed yesterday a squawk noise coming from the primary when leaving a stop a lill hard/fast. so if you have any part numbers for these shims on your invoice could you pass them on to me, thanks in advance.       

i didn't get an invoice since it was their free repair but I will ask them on Monday.

[fastfreddy]

 

[willyB]

UPDATE

I had sent a letter to Harley-Davidson's CEO Keith Wandell referencing "Rider Safety Concern - Compensator. I also sent the same letter to their CFO and COO. This morning I received a call from Harley Davidson Customer Service about this letter.

Funny that Liability Concerns get the attention of Harley-Davidson!

The customer service person called to let me know that they had received my letter. This was also the same guy I had called on 10/7/14 to formally address my concern and to get a reference number on this issue. At that time he "had not heard of this issue", "heard of a few", "don't know the number of issues", "have no way of knowing the number of issues", Etc. Etc. Etc.

I do have to say this guy had nothing really to say about the issue other than they had received my letter. The only things he had to say were in response to my questions/statements about their 3 years of design changes, the new "SHIMS" that were added to my bike (still working)  Etc. Etc. Etc.

As you can see in my attached letter, I referenced GMR Performance. As I told Harley-Davidson, they might want to "talk" to this guy since he had designed a functioning oiling device that they are now copying and that he also designed a composite thrust washer to resolve some other issues with there design. When I mentioned GMR this morning he sort of laughed. After I explained GMR's previous designs and how Harley-Davidson is getting beat buy a small shop he apologized for his chuckle.

A BIG shout out to GMR Performance for being the only company that I can find who knows more about the compensator than anyone else!!!
(ps: Still diggin' my GMR 577 cams)

Just so you know! Shims are in with Harley-Davidson as a way to resolve their tolerancing issues with their compensator assembly. He said that shims have been in use since late 2012 on new Harley 110 motors.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I'm just so fed up with Harley and their compensator.

It's really good to know that the CEO of Harley-Davidson (or at least his minions) had the guts to call me. Plus it's great to know that they acknowledged receiving my letter. I'm sure an attorney would find that very beneficial.

[Jswerve]

Hey don't be filling Steve's head up it's big enough!

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

HD without a doubt know's  who we are and what we have produced.  But I will let the lawyers sort that stuff out. As for what they did ..well time weill tell how that will work out for them. Who knows.. We will work to provide a product that will protect your investment and reduce or stop the noise. Cannot control the less than stellar production product they brought to market.

As for the product we sell them directly to HD dealers in fact some install them on bikes before selling them. I can post pictures of new units that failed and dozens of e mails (Dealers included)  on how well our product works ,.. solving  the rattling and clunking  noise that the stock system made.   So customers do not have to live with the noise or be told that the new design is much louder but all normal.     

A huge thanks to our loyal customers.. Hope you all have a great weekend.. I have to work,.. but you guys party like rockstars   ok.. even you Jesse. 

[Jswerve]

A huge thanks to our loyal customers.. Hope you all have a great weekend.. I have to work,.. but you guys party like rockstars   ok.. even you Jesse. 

Well Steve I am working 12 hour night shifts straight through Monday night so I don't think there will be much partying lol.