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[HDGearHead]

The ECM is not looking for a CCP number but a RPM number . The ACR will try to target a certain cranking RPM , and being that the ACR is not just on or off,.. but in factthe duty cycle is controlled by the ECM ,...So yes the numbers with the ACR on while cranking will vary.

So are you saying the ECM will cycle/modulate the ACR between open and closed to achieve a target cranking RPM?  In other words the ACR will not just open and remain open until the rpm increases because the motor fired?

I've been operating under the assumption that the ECM opened the ACRs and kept them that way until the motor fired causing an RPM increase.

The SE Maintenance supplement shows that the PSI should be between 130-170 with the ACR enabled/open.  The numbers for the front are lower (out of spec with a 17% variance from the rear). 

If I understood you correctly (good chance I didn't...), its possible the ECM modulated my front ACR to be opened more than it did for the rear ACR while trying to target a cranking RPM.  This would seem to make sense as my front compression is slightly greater than the rear with the ACR closed.

The variance in the compression numbers between front and back with the ACR closed seem to be within acceptable limits (less than 3% variance).

[rigidthumper]

Keep in mind the ACRs share a common power (from system relay) and common ground (from ECM), and the ECM pulses the ground as needed to assist starting.  The front cyl is in a different phase than the rear, yet they receive the same pulses from the ECM, and that accounts for the differences in pressure. 

[HDGearHead]

Well I began the disassembly to change the cams and install roller rockers.  I need to inspect the bike more often.  So far I found:

• The two bottom bolts on the trans cover that also secure the exhaust bracket had come loose. The cover was just started leaking fluid.
• The single bolt that secures the exhaust crossover to the trans that is located directly in front of the rear tire was missing (I have the Fullsac DX pipe).
• While inspecting the rear tire to see if it picked up the bolt , I noticed a very light rub line running along the right side circumference of the tire.  Turns out that the two plastic clips on the top right forward side of the swing arm that secure the ABS cable and rear brake line had broken off the swing arm.  The rear brake line was just slightly touching the tire when the suspension was compressed.  The tire had just worn through the plastic coating on the brake line but had not yet caused any damage to the steel braid underneath.  Fortunately the missing bolt from the crossover was not stuck in the tire.

On a positive note, the rear rocker cover was easy to remove with the engine in the frame.  There was plenty of clearance to remove the bolts and cover (2010 CVO Ultra).  From a past experience on another bike, I was dreading this part.

It's hot and humid in my garage so I'm going to tackle this over a few days.  I'm doing this on a J&S Jack which so far is working out well.  Bikes really solid on it and its high enough off the ground to be reasonably comfortable while sitting or standing around it. I'm starting to feel my age so it would be nice to have a table lift.  Maybe next year...

[INDEPENDENT_1]

I am looking for someone that is believes in and is proficient with tuning using all that the TTS system has to offer.  Because of this, I will not be using Jim to tune my bike. This is NOT inferring that the tune you received from Jim is good or bad.


Tom

So are you looking for someone to tune the ECM or the engine? TTS happens to be the tuner I prefer but all of its features are not needed on every build, every time. I subscribe more to the idea of making the engine happy than the ECM or the O2 sensors. Seems some tuners are more concerned with the look of the VE tables than the heat from the engine or the crisp throttle response and linear power. I think the longer I tune bikes, the less I'll understand the notion of what I perceive as "making the ECM happy". I mean, the proof is in the pudding and if the engine is operating better in every way (IE less heat, good fuel economy, more power, crisp throttle response, linear power with ugly VE tables or whatever table), I really dont give a damn what the tables look like if the engine is happy and rewards the rider with its behavior, performance, mannerisms, fuel economy, power, etc., etc.. better than a bike that has "pretty VE's, etc. and the guy using all of the things that may not need to be used to accomplish the happier engine.

[HD Street Performance]

My wife has a saying that applies, "I just want to push the button"
On another board a guy asks what to tell the tuner before tuning his  bike. Tell him the specs on the build. Have everything buttoned up and properly built and adjusted. Full of your gas. Let er rip. The tuner decides what is needed for tuning hardware, parameters and technique.  If it runs well and is safe (motor health) then job properly done. Many can accomplish that goal. Plenty of room on the top of the heap. What interferes with reality are folks that want to "one up" or badmouth trying to use the technical aspects out of the context of the end product, a quality tune, to get market share.
Freedom to modify our bikes is a good thing. So is a wide diverse group of dedicated tuners available to get the job done. Collaborating  toward the goal of improvement would go a long way in furthering the industry from all aspects. Doesn't seem to be happening much and that's a shame imho.

[hrdtail78]

I was trained back in 09 by Doc.  I believe in making the ECM happy.   The builder is responsible for the happy engine.  Tuned plenty of combo's that I would consider unhappy.  Any thing with VH big radius 2-2 is unhappy.   Any touring build with the baffles ripped out because of sound is unhappy.  Any build with corrected compression over 10 to make up for poor head work or poor cam choice is unhappy.

Only thing I have control over is the ECM.  This is where a tuner has input.  The more tools he has in his tool box.  The more tools he can use if needed.  Is every tool needed to be used in every job?  Hell no.  I don't use every tool in my roll around chest for every job either, but when things go wrong.  The more tools are needed.  It's better to have them in my box at that time.  Bottom line is.  When it all boils down to it.  The only thing that we are doing is.  Changing pulse width and when a spark jumps a gap.  We have a lot of input to control this.  A lot of math is involved for some of this, and for some we have direct control over PW and timing.  With some extra tools in the program we can also control some simple things.  Indicated idle KPA for example with a 009 cal.  We can idle at 55kpa indicated.  This gives us 5 columns on the right to map accordingly for the build you are tuning.  This gives us 4 columns for decal.  Who needs 4 columns for decal?  It's a waste.  If we could idle at 35 kpa indicated.  That gives us 7 columns for mapping the VE where we go down the road and only 2 for decal.  For me this difference is the same as promoting or demoting a power commander map for tuning.

Or I could not take the time to understand what is going on in the Delphi ECM and just rest on.  That isn't needed.

As for as O2's.  I don't care if they are happy or not.  When they are happy.  I will let them do what they do.  If they aren't happy.  I have the ECM ignore them in those areas.  Time needs to be taken to figure out when this is and isn't and the calibration should be set up accordingly.  It would be easier and a quicker tune just to turn them off and say close loop doesn't work.  Broad statements about OL vs CL, and if certain tools are needed or not is what doesn't work.  Very few broad and general statements work for me in this industry.

One thing you have never seen me do anywhere is try and talk somebody out of their choice once they have picked a tuner or head porter.  This is openly or by PM's, emails or texts.  It is a pretty low brow thing to do.  I am not sorry I didn't pick sides.  I dismiss people that have a "you are with me or against me" attitude.  I would rather stay neutral and have no consequence for other peoples poor decisions.  Personnel or business wise.   

My work and tunes speak for themselves.  I don't come to forums for business.  I do it to network with people in the industry more than anything else.  If the OP wants me to tune his bike.  I would be glad to do it.  If he goes to Doc, Frank, Jim, Brian, Joe or even goes and gets a 4 gas tune in Oakie.  No skin off my back.  I wish you the best of luck and I hope you find what you are after.  Plenty of work out there for everybody.

[willyB]

I was trained back in 09 by Doc.  I believe in making the ECM happy.   The builder is responsible for the happy engine.  Tuned plenty of combo's that I would consider unhappy.  Any thing with VH big radius 2-2 is unhappy.   Any touring build with the baffles ripped out because of sound is unhappy.  Any build with corrected compression over 10 to make up for poor head work or poor cam choice is unhappy.

Only thing I have control over is the ECM.  This is where a tuner has input.  The more tools he has in his tool box.  The more tools he can use if needed.  Is every tool needed to be used in every job?  Hell no.  I don't use every tool in my roll around chest for every job either, but when things go wrong.  The more tools are needed.  It's better to have them in my box at that time.  Bottom line is.  When it all boils down to it.  The only thing that we are doing is.  Changing pulse width and when a spark jumps a gap.  We have a lot of input to control this.  A lot of math is involved for some of this, and for some we have direct control over PW and timing.  With some extra tools in the program we can also control some simple things.  Indicated idle KPA for example with a 009 cal.  We can idle at 55kpa indicated.  This gives us 5 columns on the right to map accordingly for the build you are tuning.  This gives us 4 columns for decal.  Who needs 4 columns for decal?  It's a waste.  If we could idle at 35 kpa indicated.  That gives us 7 columns for mapping the VE where we go down the road and only 2 for decal.  For me this difference is the same as promoting or demoting a power commander map for tuning.

Or I could not take the time to understand what is going on in the Delphi ECM and just rest on.  That isn't needed.

As for as O2's.  I don't care if they are happy or not.  When they are happy.  I will let them do what they do.  If they aren't happy.  I have the ECM ignore them in those areas.  Time needs to be taken to figure out when this is and isn't and the calibration should be set up accordingly.  It would be easier and a quicker tune just to turn them off and say close loop doesn't work.  Broad statements about OL vs CL, and if certain tools are needed or not is what doesn't work.  Very few broad and general statements work for me in this industry.

One thing you have never seen me do anywhere is try and talk somebody out of their choice once they have picked a tuner or head porter.  This is openly or by PM's, emails or texts.  It is a pretty low brow thing to do.  I am not sorry I didn't pick sides.  I dismiss people that have a "you are with me or against me" attitude.  I would rather stay neutral and have no consequence for other peoples poor decisions.  Personnel or business wise.   

My work and tunes speak for themselves.  I don't come to forums for business.  I do it to network with people in the industry more than anything else.  If the OP wants me to tune his bike.  I would be glad to do it.  If he goes to Doc, Frank, Jim, Brian, Joe or even goes and gets a 4 gas tune in Oakie.  No skin off my back.  I wish you the best of luck and I hope you find what you are after.  Plenty of work out there for everybody.

I don't know nothin' 'bout birthn' no babies or the strange world of tuning for that matter. All I know is that your tune makes me happy when riding my machine.

[Steve Cole]

Are you aware of any reputable TTS tuners (Preferably trained by Doc and that use all of the TTS features) near Rockford IL (Northern IL or Southern WI)?

Tom

I'm not going to get into this anymore than this. The question is quoted above, that was asked by the customer. If a customer ask this question, Paradise Performance is NONE of what was asked for. Some may think it's personal and that's fine but when someone lies to you on several occasions and to customers it makes it personal I guess. Drago's tunes with the TTS Mastertune unit but you would need to talk with Frank himself as to who trained him, I recommended Jason @ C&S as he fit just what was asked for and was the closed to the customer that I knew of that fit exactly what was asked for.

[HDGearHead]

People are obviously passionate about this...  It's like Apple vs Windows....

As I previously posted, I'm going to go with Jason unless I can adjust my schedule to get to Doc first.

As a consumer, its my choice and my money.  While Jim is considered a top notch tuner by many, he's not my choice.

I'm certain that either Jason or Doc (and others mentioned) are equally capable of producing an excellent tune for my build and how I ride.  I don't consider either to be a poor choice.

I'm done discussing it. 

[Durwood]

Often times the ACRs are not tight and leak. Evidence is black in the stack.
For tuning
Razorback Performance, Whitehall, WI (715) 797-0454
Paradise Performance, Mattoon IL (217) 273-6847

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