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[Ken1956]

Ever since I bought this 2010 Street Glide CVO, the 110 engine has had some oil consumption.  But little by little, the consumption seems to have increased.  On a recent 4-day 1400 mile trip, I was down a little more than a quart.  So finally I talked about it with the HD service manager.  He told me 1 quart / 1000 miles is "normal oil consumption".  I don't buy that.  My 2002 Roadking never used oil like this engine does. 

Then he continues by asking how do you check your oil.  I said, on jiffy stand, cold.  He said that may be the problem.  He said to check at full operating temp.  He said I bet you are overfilling.  Not sure I totally believe that story either.  No burning oil issues, but another thread said synthetic doesn't burn like dyno oil.  Haven't looked at the plugs yet, but someone said to look for coffee/cream color on the plugs.

Now I'm scheduled to go in so they can take a look.  They plan a leak down test and visually looking at the intake/exhaust valves for signs of oil burning. 

Anyone else have this problem?  What was the solution/fix?  TIA, Ken

[grc]

What he told you about checking the oil at full operating temperature is true (refer to the owner manual, it will tell you the same thing).  The full mark on the dipstick is the maximum oil level when hot.  If you fill the oil to that line when cold, it will be overfilled.  Since checking the level cold is more convenient as well as less likely to result in burns, I suggest you continue to do so but do NOT fill to the full line on the dipstick.  Try running the oil halfway between the Full and Add marks instead.

Jerry

[mark]

What he told you about checking the oil at full operating temperature is true (refer to the owner manual, it will tell you the same thing).  The full mark on the dipstick is the maximum oil level when hot.  If you fill the oil to that line when cold, it will be overfilled.  Since checking the level cold is more convenient as well as less likely to result in burns, I suggest you continue to do so but do NOT fill to the full line on the dipstick.  Try running the oil halfway between the Full and Add marks instead.

Jerry

Adding to what Jerry said, if your crankcase is overfilled, you'll probably see tell-tell signs, like oil coming out of the air filter from the breather tubes.  Regarding a normal functioning HD using 1qt of oil per 1000 miles: that would equate to running thru your crankcase's total oil volume (about 4 qts) before you reached the end of one oil change cycle (5,000 miles).

[Ken1956]

Thanks for your comments guys.

As far as overfill goes, my dipstick has cold and hot markings.  So if they are true, I haven't been overfilling.  And checking at hot is a real pain.

And I haven't seen evidence of any blowby at the air cleaner.   

Because of the things I mentioned, I was hoping someone had run into a similar situation and can share what fixed it.

Thanks again.

[Mountainman streetbob]

If you do have ring damage, out of round cylinders and/or blow by, hopefully the cylinders are not scratched to bad. Bore it to 113, (suburban speed has a nice piston set), .030 gaskets, maybe do a  valve job while the heads are off, freshen up that top end and move on knowing you have taken care of a possible weak point. Straighten out the possible crank/bearing issues while your there and throw in a nice cam and your golden!

[3mcam]

Going thru the same problem. On a recent 4000 mile trip  my 2010 SESG went thru 2 quarts every 1600 miles. I am in the process of upgrading to a 113".

[Jswerve]

You should be checking it on the jiffy stand HOT and you shouldn't be using any oil. I have over 23k on my '12 and never use a drop between oil changes.

[Ken1956]

You should be checking it on the jiffy stand HOT and you shouldn't be using any oil. I have over 23k on my '12 and never use a drop between oil changes.

I agree.. should not be using oil like this.  I'll see what the HD service dept says after a check on Friday.

[Jswerve]

I agree.. should not be using oil like this.  I'll see what the HD service dept says after a check on Friday.

Keep us posted Ken

[smkblwr]

Well when i picked up my 2010 Ultra,  mine was useing oil from Day 1. I was told that normal consumption was 3qrts between services before the warrenty would kick in. long story short it used 4.5 qts in the first 5k miles. I took it back and had the dealer top it off and record the work about every 500 to 1000 miles till the warrenty kick in. the last 1k miles was on an IBR. Half way through my mileage went down to 160miles to the tank, burnt right at 1qt on that 1k run.  Cylinders were ovalled, rings shot, valve, guides were shot.  Like you my 03 road king with a mild 95in never burnt a drop in 45k.
Smkblwr
I wont even go into the front rotors 14k, rear shocks 1k, compensator 6K & 16k, radio issues 14K 

[Ken1956]

Cylinders were ovalled, rings shot, valve, guides were shot.  Like you my 03 road king with a mild 95in never burnt a drop in 45k.
Smkblwr
I wont even go into the front rotors 14k, rear shocks 1k, compensator 6K & 16k, radio issues 14K 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I'm very curious to see if my dealer will find similar issues. 

What is cylinders ovalled?   Was that a typo?

[grc]

Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I'm very curious to see if my dealer will find similar issues. 

What is cylinders ovalled?   Was that a typo?

Out of round.  Harley had many issues with the early 110's, with things like cylinders that were dimensionally screwed up.  A very common problem was taper, a condition where the diameter of the cylinder bore varied if measured at the top of the stroke and the bottom.  Another problem was out of round cylinders, where the bore was slightly egg shaped rather than perfectly round.  Either of those conditions can make it difficult for the rings to seal properly, as well as causing other issues like piston slap and accelerated wear.  Then there were problems with valve guides and valve stem oil seals which could cause excessive oil consumption and eventually seized valves and/or dropped guides.  Those issues seem to still exist, as we see reports of valves sticking and guides failing on the late models. 

If the dealership is competent and willing to try to find the cause of your oil consumption, as opposed to just blowing you off with the old 1000 miles per quart is within Harley specs BS, they can run some basic tests to help identify possible causes without tearing the engine completely apart.  Often the problem comes down to the dealership not wanting to perform any testing or partial teardown to find the cause because they may not be reimbursed by Harley (warranty) or the ESP if you have ESP.  Neither the factory warranty or the ESP will pay for dealers to search for possible problems unless there is very good evidence beforehand that a defect exists.  Thus the "normal oil consumption" charts you will find most manufacturers using.  Some people consider using any oil at all to be unacceptable, and without some kind of written standard those people would expect the manufacturer to overhaul or replace their engines even if they only used a pint in 5000 miles.  The problem comes when certain manufacturers (like Harley) don't update their standards from what was acceptable in the 1950's to reflect what is acceptable and normal in modern times.

I'm assuming you have ESP and that's why you're going through all of this with a 2010 bike.  If that is the case, and you don't like what you hear from the service manager at the dealership, call the ESP company and talk to them directly.  Be prepared though to hear the same BS about the acceptable amount of oil consumption.  Ultimately it may come down to trying to fight them, or just paying to have the engine rebuilt properly out of your own pocket.

Jerry

[Ken1956]

Thanks Jerry for the excellent explanation.  I really like this bike and wanted to keep it long term.  But I didn't know the bad history of the 110 engine.

And yes, I'm in the final 9 months of my ESP.  I wasn't too concerned with a little bit of oil consumption in the beginning, but after the recent 4 day, 1400 mile trip showed over a quart low, I knew something is up. 

Matter of fact, I spoke to the GM at the dealership about the costs of extending my ESP .  He told me a story about how an owner of a CVO burnt up his engine thinking he didn't have to check the oil between services.   

[smkblwr]

Ken that's why I took it back to my dealer every time it needed oil. So there would be a work order written with the date and mileage. that way I could have paperwork of the consumption between normal services so the warranty would kick in. long story short my dealer worked with me. Got them to agree to warranty covering labor and what the OEM parts would have cost, I covered the rest in my 117in build. If they have to go into the motor have them check the crank run out also. I paid the bill on that one. Just because I wanted to know what it was since the top end had just chit the bed. it was just below the max "I believe is 12thousands" allowable measurement mine was right at 11 thousands run out". That led to upgrading the bottom end. "Timken bearing inserts, H rod beams, welded, trued, and balanced the crank".
Smkblwr

[Ken1956]

Thanks, that is excellent info.  And I like the checking oil by the dealer idea. 

They offered to fill and mark the dipstick and recheck after 1000 miles.  Similar to what you did.

Thanks again.