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[hdfatboy]

Just my $0.02:

I ran my '07 110" SE Ultra in the stock configuration from August 24 to Sept 17 (approx. 1,100 miles) During that time I had it on the dyno at my dealer (after 500 miles) and did a 5th gear roll-on. We discovered a lean condition (15.5 avg) w/ 82.35HP and 98.75 ft-lbs TQ. Definately as previously mentioned (Hoist, Red & Rhino) an EPA set-up. No back firing, no power, lots of heat! Yes, the 110 badge on the rear cylinder did yellow in the first 1K miles.

I then installed the Ness Big Sucker (w/ness filter), V&H True Duals and Ovals with the SERT (and mildly massaged #84 map). The second round of dyno tuning yielded a balanced A/F (13.3 avg.) through mapping each cylinder and balancing the fuel tables (also practiced by others here).  Several iterations and tweaks to the map & bumping the A/F incrementally yielded a peak which we fell off (too rich - back firing & loss of power). We then worked backward until we returned to an appreciable result of 87.28 HP and 110.89 ft-lbs TQ at much cooler temps.

I decided that I wanted a little more. I know it's in there. More HP. However, I was not willing to sacrifice TQ and since my dealer ran a "Black Friday" sale I was inclined to buy a set of Andrews 59HG gear drive cams, S&S valve springs, rollers & pushrods along with swapping out the Ness filter for a K&N wet type and Rinehart stepped true duals. Rineharts for more HP, cams to maintan the torque with the stepped headers and the filter because I should have in the first place. I haven't gotten it finished (first set of cams shipped were for the 88/103 platform so I'm hoping to do so this week and get some miles on it - in the mid-50's this week here in SW PA) Cams done by my myself & the dealer mechanic on the off hours. There was need to releive the cases a bit for clearance. Dyno by the same dealer mechanic who is a HD certified SERT tech. I am expecting (hoping) to achieve 105+HP/110+TQ.

All that being said: I chose the SERT. I know it leaves an indellable fingerprint on the ECM but I know what it's doing - what we told it to do & I don't want to have to strip it down each and every time I go to the dealer which is what I would need to do if I ran a Thundermax, PCIII, Fuel Pak etc. along with pipes, A/C yada, yada, yada. I'm very lucky I suppose. My dealer will honor the warrantee (all seven years + wheels and tires). Keeping in mind that the drivetrain is what we're really talking about. The other side of the warrantee coin is - what happens if I'm in east jabip and it flames out? I guess I'll trailer it back. . . no point in allowing an unfamiliar party to wrench on something I've spent so much time perfecting (perfection in my reality/perception).

Am I chasing a number? NAH. Just chasing the fun . . . In a nutshell, my discoveries are thus:
1) Factory configuration is very lean with a clotted intake & exhaust sytem designed for ozone emission polutant and noise emission polutant control.
2) V&H true duals & ovals (w/ proper EFI mapping and aftermarket A/C) yields a cooler run condition with substantial torque improvement and minimal HP improvement and a nice exhaust note.
3) Cams, Rineharts, and re-mapping should yield further improved HP through a little taller rev limit with maintained TQ - all yet to be verified.
Noise level should also be slightly greater than the V&H (Had the Rineharts on my '03 Ultra & '06 SE Ultra)

The only alternative at this point would be heads (larger valves & better flow) vs. stock and larger/improved EFI. Not certain it's necessary. None of what I did is even remotely necessary (aside from improved A/F mapping) but a whole lotta fun [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]!

[kojak]

Good post. I'm sure you realize you will need to get it retuned on the Dyno with the SERT software after the next set of mods, changing the exhaust alone significantly changes the VE of your engine. If you get the custom map from your shop on a cd, you can get it reloaded most anywhere if needed. From what I have researched, a SERT should be more reliable than a PC3 since you are not adding another electrical component to your EFI system but altering the ECM map itself through the interface module.

[hdfatboy]

Good post. I'm sure you realize you will need to get it retuned on the Dyno with the SERT software after the next set of mods, changing the exhaust alone significantly changes the VE of your engine. If you get the custom map from your shop on a cd, you can get it reloaded most anywhere if needed. From what I have researched, a SERT should be more reliable than a PC3 since you are not adding another electrical component to your EFI system but altering the ECM map itself through the interface module.

As I said:

. . .  Rineharts for more HP, cams to maintan the torque with the stepped headers and the filter because I should have in the first place. I haven't gotten it finished . . .  Dyno by the same dealer mechanic who is a HD certified SERT tech. I am expecting (hoping) to achieve 105+HP/110+TQ.  . .

I am hoping for much improved volumetric efficiency in the swap of the V&H to Rineharts alone let alone the increased lift & duration of the cams! It'll get dynoed before it leaves that's for sure not only to be certain A/F, timing, etc. is on but also to quanitfy what was done [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif].

[Hoist!]

Just my $0.02:

I ran my '07 110" SE Ultra in the stock configuration from August 24 to Sept 17 (approx. 1,100 miles) During that time I had it on the dyno at my dealer (after 500 miles) and did a 5th gear roll-on. We discovered a lean condition (15.5 avg) w/ 82.35HP and 98.75 ft-lbs TQ. Definately as previously mentioned (Hoist, Red & Rhino) an EPA set-up. No back firing, no power, lots of heat! Yes, the 110 badge on the rear cylinder did yellow in the first 1K miles.

I then installed the Ness Big Sucker (w/ness filter), V&H True Duals and Ovals with the SERT (and mildly massaged #84 map). The second round of dyno tuning yielded a balanced A/F (13.3 avg.) through mapping each cylinder and balancing the fuel tables (also practiced by others here).  Several iterations and tweaks to the map & bumping the A/F incrementally yielded a peak which we fell off (too rich - back firing & loss of power). We then worked backward until we returned to an appreciable result of 87.28 HP and 110.89 ft-lbs TQ at much cooler temps.

I decided that I wanted a little more. I know it's in there. More HP. However, I was not willing to sacrifice TQ and since my dealer ran a "Black Friday" sale I was inclined to buy a set of Andrews 59HG gear drive cams, S&S valve springs, rollers & pushrods along with swapping out the Ness filter for a K&N wet type and Rinehart stepped true duals. Rineharts for more HP, cams to maintan the torque with the stepped headers and the filter because I should have in the first place. I haven't gotten it finished (first set of cams shipped were for the 88/103 platform so I'm hoping to do so this week and get some miles on it - in the mid-50's this week here in SW PA) Cams done by my myself & the dealer mechanic on the off hours. There was need to releive the cases a bit for clearance. Dyno by the same dealer mechanic who is a HD certified SERT tech. I am expecting (hoping) to achieve 105+HP/110+TQ.

All that being said: I chose the SERT. I know it leaves an indellable fingerprint on the ECM but I know what it's doing - what we told it to do & I don't want to have to strip it down each and every time I go to the dealer which is what I would need to do if I ran a Thundermax, PCIII, Fuel Pak etc. along with pipes, A/C yada, yada, yada. I'm very lucky I suppose. My dealer will honor the warrantee (all seven years + wheels and tires). Keeping in mind that the drivetrain is what we're really talking about. The other side of the warrantee coin is - what happens if I'm in east jabip and it flames out? I guess I'll trailer it back. . . no point in allowing an unfamiliar party to wrench on something I've spent so much time perfecting (perfection in my reality/perception).

Am I chasing a number? NAH. Just chasing the fun . . . In a nutshell, my discoveries are thus:
1) Factory configuration is very lean with a clotted intake & exhaust sytem designed for ozone emission polutant and noise emission polutant control.
2) V&H true duals & ovals (w/ proper EFI mapping and aftermarket A/C) yields a cooler run condition with substantial torque improvement and minimal HP improvement and a nice exhaust note.
3) Cams, Rineharts, and re-mapping should yield further improved HP through a little taller rev limit with maintained TQ - all yet to be verified.
Noise level should also be slightly greater than the V&H (Had the Rineharts on my '03 Ultra & '06 SE Ultra)

The only alternative at this point would be heads (larger valves & better flow) vs. stock and larger/improved EFI. Not certain it's necessary. None of what I did is even remotely necessary (aside from improved A/F mapping) but a whole lotta fun [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]!

Really excellent post HDFB. I agree with everything you're saying. It must be nice to have a dealer who'll let you do that much work and stand behind it for the extended warranty period. I feel the same way regarding the performance mods too. I am however, taking a slightly different appraoch. Do the work to have it run well. First and foremost. The PC alone is very simple on&off is known to be very reliable. If I get a Wed bike, I don't expect the dealer will ever see my bike. I get a Fri or Mon bike, I can take the PC off for Warranty work. I get a real POS, I have dealer install SERT and move my bed into the place. Admittedly, this approach was simpler when it was only 1 year warranty and carb. There weren't any issues getting the bike fixed. And it was only a year. I'm not having performance mods done by a dealer. So, 85-90HP and 100-110TQ is fine for 2 years. When the time comes, I'll know if it needs anything else and what. There'll also be moretime-proven component choices around then too. Like you said, we're not chasing a number. We just want our bikes to run good and strong so we can ride them the way we like to and enjoy! But you guys already know this. Hoist!  8-)

[kojak]

HDFB, I am not an expert on the internal combustion chamber by any stretch...the way I understand it is if you want to maintain torque at the usable rpm range, changing cams with higher lift/duration without any other engine modifications will lower your corrected compression ratio due to the increased overlap in your valves which will lower torque at lower rpm's. To maintain the torque, you have to increase the compression (different crowns on the pistons etc) to end up at the same corrected compression ratio with the increased overlap as what you had with the original cams. Along with the exhaust, ac, sert, cams etc you will have the best of both worlds!

[UltraPolecat]

 :-/Does this have something to do with covalent bonds? [smiley=nervous.gif]

[hdfatboy]

HDFB, I am not an expert on the internal combustion chamber by any stretch...the way I understand it is if you want to maintain torque at the usable rpm range, changing cams with higher lift/duration without any other engine modifications will lower your corrected compression ratio due to the increased overlap in your valves which will lower torque at lower rpm's. To maintain the torque, you have to increase the compression (different crowns on the pistons etc) to end up at the same corrected compression ratio with the increased overlap as what you had with the original cams. Along with the exhaust, ac, sert, cams etc you will have the best of both worlds!

Plenty of compression to begin with. Got it running last night. And after warm up, strapped it down on the dyno. It makes useable power from approx. 2500RPM and never quits until it hits the rev limiter which we've now bumped to 6600. Unfortunately the dyno computer chit the bed and we never got to completely tune. A/f is set really rich. As soon as they get software re-loaded I'm going back. We'll block out two hours and get it tuned. But for now all I can say is WOW! SERIOUS power SERIOUS torque!!

[kojak]

 :)Good deal! I pick up my bike tomorrow morning. My tech said the SERT did a FANTASTIC job of keeping the AFR right around 13.7 to 1 both steady state and under strong throttle roll-ons! Cant wait. Got 110 ft-lb of torque at 3500 rpm.

[Hoist!]

:)Good deal! I pick up my bike tomorrow morning. My tech said the SERT did a FANTASTIC job of keeping the AFR right around 13.7 to 1 both steady state and under strong throttle roll-ons! Cant wait. Got 110 ft-lb of torque at 3500 rpm.

Hey Kojak, sounds great. Did they Dyno it or just drop the map in?  Let us know how the bike feels now and if you have a permanent grin on now!. Hoist!  8-)

[SilverDawg]

I have finally made the decision on the intake/exhaust for the SERK.  [smiley=banana.gif]

After much research here and on a few other sites, and speaking with the service manager at my store (what a great guy, took the time to explain everything a in a way an idiot like me can understand - he also related his experience so far with both the 110's and both brand of pipes I was considering)

I am officially going with the following (or until you try to change my mind) for the intake/exhaust portion of my mods:

* K & N Filter
* V & H oval slip ons (no TD's)
* SERT

Pretty basic and simple I know, but after Jim ( service manager) walked me through his experience so far with the TD systems on the  1110's, I think I can achieve what I stated in my opening post and save a ton of dough.  They have seen some issues with the RH's ( not bashing, but have heard and read enough to know that I am going a different direction) and even with some of the V & H TD's.   I still love the look of the RH's, but for now, I'll go with the boys from V & H's.  ( I have big shot longs on my Heritage!)

He likes the way the stock headers help the engine function when combined with the proper tuning (not so lean).  He walked me through his experience so far with dyno tuning (spoke about volumetric efficiency tables ) and how he has done 3 110's so far with the SERT and V & H slip ons that are running fantastic.  He also told me dyno tuning varies by each store ( apparently there are many ways to do this, depending upon how many throttle positions one attackes).  He estimated it would take about two hours to do mine, based on what he has seen and done before with similar set-ups to mine.

I can see why my friend highly recommended this shop.  They are actually more of a RH shop than V & H, so I think he is very sincere in his comments, as he could have easlily sold me a whole TD system [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif].  This will save me about $400.   This will help with the cost of the signal and aux. light kits.

[rbmntx]

I can see why my friend highly recommended this shop.

Cobaltman, which shop are you using?  Don't I remember you saying it was Red River HD in Iowa Park?  That's the next thing that's giving me heartburn..., wondering how good the dyno techs are at the local dealerships.

[SilverDawg]

rbmntx,

Yes, that is the one.   The service manager was great.

I plan on taking a ride up there perhaps to get my 10K done on my Heritage, and meet them all in person before my bike gets there.  I checked on their service prices and they are about $40 bucks cheaper than AEHD on the 10K price.

Their new store is done in March.  Although it is over 100 miles away, it makes for a great ride.

[rbmntx]

I plan on taking a ride up there perhaps to get my 10K done on my Heritage, and meet them all in person before my bike gets there.  I checked on their service prices and they are about $40 bucks cheaper than AEHD on the 10K price.

Maybe we could ride up together.  Depending on when you go, I may be ready to have the SERT put put in and have it dyno'ed.

[SilverDawg]

rbmntx,

Did you make up your mind yet on which direction you are going?

[Hoist!]

rbmntx,

Did you make up your mind yet on which direction you are going?

They're all waiting til I report on my S&S's before doing anything! Hoist! 8-)