First ride review: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/first-ride-the-reborn-2014-indian-motorcycles/?smid=fb-share&_r=0
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The Chieftain is $36K... a bit under a CUSE, but no Tour Pak. Hmmm. The video also said a ONE YEAR warranty... With a 4-year "service contract"... that doesn't sound like a "free" 5-year warranty to me.
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Ken
Tire pressure monitors. Sweet!
Something's not right with the Chieftain...it's like they grafted a RK Classic with an Ultra. The Chieftain doesn't know whether to be retro or modern. Fairing is the worst part - the chrome around the headlight looks like they were just trying to stick on bling.
The other two, Classic and Vintage, look great and Indian has added some great features to their lineup.
I think Ken got the info here. It seems to me the Chief Classic is a bit more than 18K ????? :nixweiss:
http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-au/motorcycles
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They also offer guaranteed trade in values out to 3 years.
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Ken...the Yamaha Stratoliner also has a cast aluminum frame, and they've been around for several years now, with no problems I am aware of. Saves a bit of weight and is less likely to flex, if I'm not mistaken...like a good mountain bike.
I looked on the Indian website, and discovered that the nearest dealer in over 120 miles from our house, way up in Greer, SC, north of Greenville. Funny, but I used to live in Greer back when I was working at Michelin, NA there in 2001-2003.
No Indian dealer in the ENTIRE ATLANTA area - the largest metro area in the south? Really? That is a real buzzkill for me. No way I would buy a bike with the nearest dealer that far away...
Ken
A realistic Canadian MSRP likely because there is no middleman as there is with HD and Deeley Canada. The nearest Indian dealer to me is in Calgary, about two hours north. They are also one of the HD dealers in Calgary and I bet they sell as many 2014 Indians as they can get their hands on. Maybe Victory dealerships will be trained to provide some service work on the Indian bikes.
Guaranteed trade-in value for three years is pretty amazing... The MoCo did this with Sportys recently, but only for one year I believe, and only when trading up to a Big Twin.
Rode the non fairing model this morning as I wanted to compare it to my 2013 SERK. It had the leather bags and windshield. I do not care for the look of the fairing model. The hard bags on the Indian remind me of the cheap foreign ones that sell on ebay. The lids on the leather bags do not come down over the side and will probably fill up with water in a heavy rain but they sure look good. All the bikes standard with a slot in the rider seat to put in a back rest. Set up the same as a mustang. Turn signals controls just like a metric but at least this Indian comes standard with a cruise control. I my humble opinion this bike has better slow speed handling than my King but at speed 75 to 80 with wind not as stable. Since the bike does not have lowers and the temp was not over 80 hard to tell about the heat. Stock exhaust note more pronounced on the Indian. Has a little rumble to it when you get on it. When it comes to power, hands down winner to the Indian. Its a beast. The non fairing version has a very retro and classic look to it.would you buy one? :nixweiss:
Hmmm, I could do one of these...how long do you think the battery would last on this INDIAN?(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/08/02/automobiles/wheels/Indian-Chief-Vintage/Indian-Chief-Vintage-blog480.jpg)
Not that I'd give up :pumpkin: but would definitely consider it before buying another H-D (but not until they have been in production for a couple years).
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
how long do you think the battery would last on this INDIAN?I don't know but if you buy it I'll keep it for you... Hell... I'll even buy the battery tender to keep it on so we can see if it lasts as long as the original battery did on my :pumpkin:. ;) :D
I don't know but if you buy it I'll keep it for you... Hell... I'll even buy the battery tender to keep it on so we can see if it lasts as long as the original battery did on my :pumpkin:. ;) :D:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: i remember the posts you made on the longevity of the pumpkin battery. i bet the :indian_chief:will not out do the pumpkin!
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
But Location seems ridiculous for most folk....ish
And perhaps the bikes will be built so well that the need for service, other than routine maintenance, will not be necessary. That would be a novel concept to HD.
I think it's the classic Indian front fender that busts my bubble. :nixweiss:
Indian pricing? See if I'm missing something here - the Chieftain, with no lowers, no tour pac, etc. is 23k. Top of the line HD Electa Glide Ultra Ltd. is $24,200, which includes tour pac, lowers, and six speakers. I thought the Indians were supposed to be appealing as an alternative to HD because they were going to have a better price point. I imagine by the time you add the Indian saddlebag lid speakers, tour pac, and maybe lowers (if Indian offers them), your going to be well past the cost of a comparable HD. The Indian has some nice features (Bluetooth, adjustable windshield, etc) but still...
...and you'll still be stuck with that ugly fairing.
May be more comparable to a Street Glide.
Indian pricing? See if I'm missing something here - the Chieftain, with no lowers, no tour pac, etc. is 23k. Top of the line HD Electa Glide Ultra Ltd. is $24,200, which includes tour pac, lowers, and six speakers. I thought the Indians were supposed to be appealing as an alternative to HD because they were going to have a better price point. I imagine by the time you add the Indian saddlebag lid speakers, tour pac, and maybe lowers (if Indian offers them), your going to be well past the cost of a comparable HD. The Indian has some nice features (Bluetooth, adjustable windshield, etc) but still...
...and you'll still be stuck with thatuglyFUGLY fairing.
Indian pricing? See if I'm missing something here - the Chieftain, with no lowers, no tour pac, etc. is 23k. Top of the line HD Electa Glide Ultra Ltd. is $24,200, which includes tour pac, lowers, and six speakers. I thought the Indians were supposed to be appealing as an alternative to HD because they were going to have a better price point. I imagine by the time you add the Indian saddlebag lid speakers, tour pac, and maybe lowers (if Indian offers them), your going to be well past the cost of a comparable HD. The Indian has some nice features (Bluetooth, adjustable windshield, etc) but still...
...and you'll still be stuck with that ugly fairing.
"One last thing, in stock form the Electra Glide Ultra only has four speakers, not six."
Egultrac, I stand corrected, 4 rather than 6. However, even with all the bling, I don't see the Chieftain as a rival to a CVO SG.
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But Polaris is a very aggressive company, they make changes faster than no other manufacture. They won't hear many complaints and new styling will emerge.
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How many Visions are they selling? :nixweiss: :puke:Not many and that's a good example. The Cross Roads is the Vision with new body work.
I spent a few hundred miles on a Victory Cross roads and came very close to buying one. The performance and handling gap between the Victory and Harley was staggering and all in favor of the Victory. I expect the performance gap to be even larger with the newest Polaris.I was really close to buying a Vic CCT prior to getting the CVO. It's a really great bike, and as you said, just blows away the Harley from a dynamic standpoint. Polaris has got a bunch of money behind both Vic and Indian, and they've positioned themselves with two very distinct lines: a modern interpretation of the American V-Twin motorcycle, and a bona-fide heritage brand. I haven't ridden the Indian yet, but on paper it's an impressive machine.
I owned restored and rode a 47 Chief for years before I ever owned a Harley. I could easily see myself buying the Indian Classic instead of a RoadKing. Add a windshield and black softbags and I would be set. Hopefully they will offer the Vintage in an all black option. I have to agree with others, the hard bags and fairing on the Hard Bagger missed the mark. But Polaris is a very aggressive company, they make changes faster than no other manufacture. They won't hear many complaints and new styling will emerge. Polaris may have only scratched the surface with the Victory line of MCs, I think in a very short time these new Indians are going to leave a much bigger mark. The Brand recognition is very deep and already in place. The bikes are mechanically superior in so many ways. Its not a JP crate bike with Indian stickers on the tank this time. I'm sure Harley is very aware of this.
Not many and that's a good example. The Cross Roads is the Vision with new body work.
Keep Arlen away from the Indians and they should be OK, Lol..
Steve
So Steve... How long until a Fullsac X-Pipe for these new Indians?
I wonder if Steve Cole is working on a TTS for them, too?
THOSE two things might change the whole game! A new market opportunity for the "Two Steves"!!! :2vrolijk_21:
Ken
The Chieftain appears to have as much or more chrome as a 2012 CVO Street Glide while costing 10k less.
And Indian feels so strongly about these new bikes that they are willing to back them for 5 years not just two.
Are these 3 new Indians softails? :nixweiss:
No, they are not "softails" in the traditional sense of the word...as in HD's design. They are monoshock designs, which is light years different. Look at almost any sport bike...they are practically ALL monoshock designs (I can't think of one that's not, in fact). Several "cruiser" style bikes use a monoshock, including Victory and Star, just to name two.
Here's a simplistic image of a typical monoshock design with a single sided swingarm like you'd see on a Ducati or similar bike. They can be made much easier to adjust...in the case of the Indian design, it apparently has an air adjustable preload, but I don't know if it allows damping adjustments.
It's way too early to tell, but from the reviews that I've read, they are saying that the 111 is better engineered and will be more reliable than the 110.
I've just spent a ton of money on my 110 to make it a more reliable engine. Add that to the cost of our bikes and then compare.
I agree with several on here: the fairing, saddlebags and fenders are FUGLY!
Cowboy
Vintage Blue (for Dood):2vrolijk_21: Thanks, that would work.
Chieftain #4
Not liking the Chieftain at all!
It looks somewhat confused :nixweiss: too much going on, like a cross between a Victory, Goldwing and Harley but not doing any of them well!
Tacky.
X2
The fairing chrome is hideous...
I don't think they'll be call 'Indian" here in Canada..... probably "First Nation People'.....most of them wont work, but, on the up-side, if you have one the gov't will give it handouts.....
I don't think they'll be call 'Indian" here in Canada..... probably "First Nation People'.....most of them wont work, but, on the up-side, if you have one the gov't will give it handouts.....
I'm just waiting for the letter to the Dealers from Mother Harley explaining that the Road Glide's delay will instead be until 2016 rather than 2015; because the new Indian looks just like what Harley had planned so they have to start over . :huepfenlol2:
I'm just waiting for the letter to the Dealers from Mother Harley explaining that the Road Glide's delay will instead be until 2016 rather than 2015; because the new Indian looks just like what Harley had planned so they have to start over . :huepfenlol2:
Ah, ha! Now we just have to figure out who at Indian use to work at Mother Harley or is there possibly a mole???
Interesting thought Twolane.
The new Indians may be great bikes... But they have a WHOLE LOT TO LEARN about making a fairing that doesn't look like a friggin' ABORTION...
Oh, and saddlebags, too...
I'll be keepin' the Honey Badger for the time bein'...
Ken
The worst part is the fairing...North Ga Hawg nailed it...it is an abortion. Indian came so close to hitting a home run....here's my fix:
1. Redesign fairing, lose the chrome blob below the windshield, get rid of the Goldwing turn signals.
2. Redesign saddlebags...hinges and lid. Make saddlebags extended so they partially cover the exhaust.
3. Trim down the front fender on the Chieftain.
Ken,
If you saw the bags in person you would be put off trust me. And in case we haven't noticed, the round cars went out as well. Look at all the new American models, back to strait and angular, Mustang,Camaro,Challenger etc...
From the side view this bike wouldn't look to bad if they had flattened out those lids. But all that mess on the fairing just kills everything. And of course Polaris is going to say that the 111 will destroy the 120R in every gear. I doubt it. Lets see if this first year motor will even work,let alone smoke any Harley motor.
Polaris has balls though, putting a 23K base price on this bike. If you think stock harley grips and mirrors and pegs are bad, wait until you see these. The grips are identical to the shifter pegs on stock Harley's.
Everyone keeps comparing the Chieftain to the SG. I believe a better comparison would be to an Electra Glide. The SG is the "sports car" of the HD touring family. I don't get that sports car feel with the Chieftain - it looks too traditional, except for the fairing, which looks to have been designed by Team Goldwing or NASA. I hate to keep harping on the fairing, but I'm at a loss to explain how that design made it off the drawing board.
The Chieftain would rock with some Milwaukee Baggers and a batwing.
I dont think the maker oF Jet ski's ( Polaris ) should be compared to a Harley Davidson in any way.
But Midnight, thats your call brother. This so called 111 motor is untested anywhere and is a prototype. Harley Davidson has been making Motorcycles for 110 years.
But Midnight Rider, you can always buy one of those really neat extended service contracts if you doubt your H D's mechanical integrity!
All in all, I like it OK. If they could have done a little better on the motor, I might have like it better. Either way, I'm sure they don't care what I think.100% about the appearance.......the performance should be there as it is really a Victory motor, just a tad bigger.
Your's remark about motor (engine), is it for appearance or performance?
Skipper
er
Forgot to mention that I did notice quite a bit of vibration in the handlebars than I was expecting. Mainly 70-75 on the highway in either 5th or 6th. Again, wished I had ridden the chief with just the windshield. I did notice that the leaders and the blockers taking the demo folks out were not on a chieftain so that might say a lot. Otherwise, really like the look and feel of the bike and the motor. Glad I rode one nowwould you buy one!?
would you buy one!?
Forgot to mention that I did notice quite a bit of vibration in the handlebars than I was expecting. Mainly 70-75 on the highway in either 5th or 6th. Again, wished I had ridden the chief with just the windshield. I did notice that the leaders and the blockers taking the demo folks out were not on a chieftain so that might say a lot. Otherwise, really like the look and feel of the bike and the motor. Glad I rode one now
Forgot to mention that I did notice quite a bit of vibration in the handlebars than I was expecting. Mainly 70-75 on the highway in either 5th or 6th. Again, wished I had ridden the chief with just the windshield. I did notice that the leaders and the blockers taking the demo folks out were not on a chieftain so that might say a lot. Otherwise, really like the look and feel of the bike and the motor. Glad I rode one now
Hey, this is Indian's debut, their real "first" year with a solid financial backing. They really didn't have much choice but to start with their retro heritage styling this year. It was kinda what everybody was expecting. Give Polaris backed Indian a few years to get their game in order and I believe that we will see the competition needed to wake up the sleeping giant H-D. Rome wasn't built in a day. ;)
Is that financial backing enough to withstand the onslaught of warranty claims. Look at what happened with GM a few years ago. GM could not reimburse dealers for warranty repairs and put a LOT of dealerships out of business. In the past, this has been the main issue with the various Indian rebirths we've seen. Nobody can make a perfect anything. I believe the Japanese strive for 97% which means they accept going in that they will pay warranty claims on 3% of sales. Harley-Davidson has been in business for 110 years and they are still striving to lower their warranty claims. This iteration of Indian with new designs in abundance is going to be what ? 90% - - less ? - - -more ? In any event when you say solid financial backing that means that the money people are prepared to lose money in the first couple of years. I wish them well. I think the more choices we as motorcyclists have the better for all of us. Competition is a healthy thing. So I hope as someone who loves motorcycles of all stripes that they make it. But you know, the only new American made motorcycle companies that have had the real financial backing to survive have been Victory and the BRP Spider and they've had huge corporations (Polaris and Bombardier{CanAm})to back them up. Time will tell
B B
LabRat, can you give me web site for Indian forum please.
Br,
Skipper
It is funny that you say 90%.....of what......90% of all bikes will be returned for a warranty claim?
In the outboard motor industry..90% of all outboard motors have a warranty claim and it is built into the initial cost of the motor.
Anybody guess who I'm thinking of on this bike? :)...Don ... ::)
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Anybody guess who I'm thinking of on this bike? :)...
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Don ... ::)
Don't know about you but I thought of me when I saw that picture. Love the tan leathers. Even more so with the red. That's a great looking bike.Ding, ding... we have winners!!! When I saw that picture it immediately reminded me of your former RK... that picture had you written all over it. :2vrolijk_21:
Ding, ding... we have winners!!! When I saw that picture it immediately reminded me of your former RK... that picture had you written all over it. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
yeap, I could do that one in a heartbeat:2vrolijk_21:
It is funny that you say 90%.....of what......90% of all bikes will be returned for a warranty claim?
In the outboard motor industry..90% of all outboard motors have a warranty claim and it is built into the initial cost of the motor.
I asked about a Full Tour Pack, "Coming Soon"Engine Guard = $399.00 "Coming Soon"
Quick Release Mid-Height Windshield = $549.99 "Coming Soon"
Quick Release Tall Windshield = $599.99 "Coming Soon"
Hard Saddle Bags - Not showing as and option yet
Saddle Bag Guards = $299.99 "Coming Soon"
DR
At the end of the day, regardless of what exactly Polaris/Indian/Victory does, they build an OK nice bike to each is own? Personally, I think the Chieftain is a pretty cool bike compared to a Road King, outside that, I don't think there in the game. Aside from all those opinions, heres the real truth. I took a long weekend ride this past weekend to the U.P. Munising and Pictured Rock. When we left Gaylord and stopped for lunch in some small town in the UP I noticed I had oil splattered on the right side of the motor coming from somewhere around the oil filter, or oil pump. Of course I checked my oil, continued on to Munising. I went to the HD logo on my Roadtech, I saw there was a HD dealer in Marquette 35 miles west of where we were. I called the dealer and asked if they could look at my bike in the morning, at 9:10 I was there, at 9:40 I was on the road again and it cost me zero. Try and find an Indian dealer when touring! There are two in Michigan, one in Canton, the other in Grand Rapids. They have a long way to go before they can come close to matching the network body Harley Davidson has.
Maybe Indian is planning on not having any oil leaks....less need for dealers on every corner.... :2vrolijk_21:
Sorry Rio, couldn't help that one....just a' jokin' with ya... ;D
You are correct in it's nice knowing when something happens to our HD's, there is a dealer close
If I didn't own the Honey Badger, I would have already placed an order for a Chief Vintage in Springfield Blue with the Stage 1 fishtail exhaust and rider and passenger back rests. Oh, and the fringe footboard trim! Can't deal with the BUTT UGLY Chieftain, tho...
Ken
Why would you buy it in the wrong color.... ? :nixweiss:
At the end of the day, regardless of what exactly Polaris/Indian/Victory does, they build an OK nice bike to each is own? Personally, I think the Chieftain is a pretty cool bike compared to a Road King, outside that, I don't think there in the game. Aside from all those opinions, heres the real truth. I took a long weekend ride this past weekend to the U.P. Munising and Pictured Rock. When we left Gaylord and stopped for lunch in some small town in the UP I noticed I had oil splattered on the right side of the motor coming from somewhere around the oil filter, or oil pump. Of course I checked my oil, continued on to Munising. I went to the HD logo on my Roadtech, I saw there was a HD dealer in Marquette 35 miles west of where we were. I called the dealer and asked if they could look at my bike in the morning, at 9:10 I was there, at 9:40 I was on the road again and it cost me zero. Try and find an Indian dealer when touring! There are two in Michigan, one in Canton, the other in Grand Rapids. They have a long way to go before they can come close to matching the network body Harley Davidson has.
Thats OK...you guys can get in line to take a poke at me for that one! They took the oil filter off and put a new one on which apparently solved the problem, but again, needed a HD dealer around to get er fixed. I know you guys are far from nieve, but most everything mechanical is far from perfect and will eventually fail. Me personally, the Chieftain for an around town bike would be great, I would prefer it over a Road King any day. Touring and getting on the road purposely trying to find less populated areas, I think you have to ride something with a dealer network and available parts reasonably close?
Why would you buy it in the wrong color.... ? :nixweiss:
If it was just the oil filter, you didn't need a dealer to "fix" it anyway...
Ken
Didn't have an oil filter wrench or an oil filter with me? Still not positive that was the problem, I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. I cleaned the motor with S-100 and powerwashed all the oil off the block and the head to get a fresh look to see if I still have an issue. I probably could have completed the whole trip without an issue, but it was still nice to know you had somewhere to go if need be? We went on a trip a couple years ago to Bar Harbor Maine. North of Lake Placid in the middle of no-where my friends ultra blew a seal, not sure how many miles he had on the bike, but he had an extended warranty. We made it to Lake Placid after adding a few quarts of oil. He called the dealer in Laconia which was about 125 miles away, he rented a Uhaul, brought the bike there, they gave him a bike to ride, he met us in Bar Harbor the following day, and Laconia was a scheduled stop on the way back to Michigan, they had his bike ready and clean free of charge! Priceless!
I don't know Don....looks damn nice in the "Blue" Looking forward to seeing both colors.
JW
At the end of the day, regardless of what exactly Polaris/Indian/Victory does, they build an OK nice bike to each is own? Personally, I think the Chieftain is a pretty cool bike compared to a Road King, outside that, I don't think there in the game. Aside from all those opinions, heres the real truth. I took a long weekend ride this past weekend to the U.P. Munising and Pictured Rock. When we left Gaylord and stopped for lunch in some small town in the UP I noticed I had oil splattered on the right side of the motor coming from somewhere around the oil filter, or oil pump. Of course I checked my oil, continued on to Munising. I went to the HD logo on my Roadtech, I saw there was a HD dealer in Marquette 35 miles west of where we were. I called the dealer and asked if they could look at my bike in the morning, at 9:10 I was there, at 9:40 I was on the road again and it cost me zero. Try and find an Indian dealer when touring! There are two in Michigan, one in Canton, the other in Grand Rapids. They have a long way to go before they can come close to matching the network body Harley Davidson has.
If a shop is already carrying Polaris products like ATV's and such, wouldn't that at least allow you to buy parts through them ? Maybe a stupid question but you know Ford sold a ton of trucks beause you could get parts for your Ford truck at the same place as you bought your Ford farm tractors
B B
Could be marketing spin and smoke and mirrors, but the word from Indian is that they have been overwhelmed with dealer requests since the official launch. Sounds like many dealers were on the fence about committing to Indian until after they saw a real product. Indian is putting some strict guidelines on their dealership in terms of a minimum of 1700 square feet of space devoted strictly to Indian products. Supposedly almost 40% of the requests have come from current HD dealer owners and also heard there is a deal in the works with Cadillac - similar to how BMW deals their bikes in some markets.I unfortunately is marketing "smoke and mirrors". What makes any MC dealer profitable (or not) is the service and parts business which we all on this forum know only too well. Without having any bikes on the road already, it will take a very long time for a stand alone dealer to turn a profit. From what I am hearing, they are struggling to find people to make the financial commitments it takes to build a store and are now starting to look harder at compromising to let existing MC dealers become new Indian dealers.
No clue how true it is, but it's clear Polaris is going after this market hard and investing a lot to do it.
I unfortunately is marketing "smoke and mirrors". What makes any MC dealer profitable (or not) is the service and parts business which we all on this forum know only too well. Without having any bikes on the road already, it will take a very long time for a stand alone dealer to turn a profit. From what I am hearing, they are struggling to find people to make the financial commitments it takes to build a store and are now starting to look harder at compromising to let existing MC dealers become new Indian dealers.
If the new Indian's turn out to be as reliable as the Victory's are then having mega Indian dealerships across North America may not be as important as it would be when owning a HD. The closest Indian dealership to me now is two hours north in Calgary, which would be fine with me.
Why does anyone think that Indian must have "stand alone" dealerships? The dealership in Birmingham is a large one and they sell Ducati, Suzuki, Yamaha, just to name three, and are picking up the Indian line as well. With basically three models available presently, a stand alone dealership just doesn't make economic sense for either Indian or a dealer who wants the brand. HD has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 models, a huge clothing line, hundreds of add on parts, etc. If I owned a Honda/Yamaha dealership, I would be very interested in the Indian to capture those buyers who might otherwise buy a Harley, or those who are leaving the HD brand for whatever reason but still want to buy "American".
While HD may have hundreds of dealers across the country, how many of them are GOOD dealers with regards to service? I know people who will drive/ride a hundred miles or more to a dealer who actually gives a chit when they may have a local dealer 5 miles from their home. HD "sells" more motorcycles than any other brand, but, if I'm not mistaken, they consider a "sale" to be a delivery to a dealer, not to a customer.
I seriously doubt that Indian will have any stand alone dealerships anytime soon, if ever. It's just not necessary.
Great report on your test ride. Thanks for the unbiased opinion. :2vrolijk_21:Not as well received over on the HDForums ;D
Not as well received over on the HDForums ;D
Thanks, I tried to be fair. I'm just not "feeling the love" with the CVO Ultra Classics since they brought out the Limited and put 103" in all the bikes. Back in the day when the production line at a TC96 and the CVO's had the 110" with all the bling and parts limited to CVOs there was clear distinction between the bikes to justify the additional cost. Now days, not so much. This has caused me to look beyond the HD line as I strive for a more unique bike.