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[JCZ]

That's my opinion as well...dealer last week tried to convince me he was the only one in the country who had a 2012 SESG for sale.  That was right before he offered to sell me his for $5k over MSRP!  ....he still has the bike...

The orange 12 SESG sitting on the floor at Sacramento HD.....MSRP dealer.  Ask for Jarret or Michael in sales.

[mark]

We've heard the cry of "this is the last year for air-cooled engines" for years.  Every June-July, Google "new Harley-Davidison" and see how many conspiracy therorist are stating the new models will all be water-cooled....happens every yr.  My prediction:  HD will not water-cool unless Uncle Sugar bends the MoCo over and absolutely makes them.

Regarding the salesman claiming that the '13's will be water-cooled...yeah, I'm sure he's privy to what's going on behind closed doors at HD mgmt. and design meetings...he got the inside info while having a few brews at Willie G's this weekend. If HD does go water-cooled, he'll know when we all do.  

Gotta go, Jack Roush and Carroll Shelby invited me over to talk about the new 2013 Mustang's electric-kerosene rotary engine.  

[mrmagloo]

I can't imagine how hot your feet will get with the radiators in the lowers like that?

[CVOfan]

The orange 12 SESG sitting on the floor at Sacramento HD.....MSRP dealer.  Ask for Jarret or Michael in sales.

Sorry...didn't mean to hijack the thread.  Wish that dealer was closer to me here in Arkansas...

[kraut]

A salesman at one of the local dealer asked my wife if I was still interested in the SERG and she replied that it would be '13 before I was ready to look with serious intent. He told her that I might want to look at one of the new '12s because this is the last year for air cooled motors and after that they'd all be water cooled like the V-Rods.

ridiculous 

Sales people ...

[IronButt]

My impressions was that he was trying to scare us into an earlier purchase, "cause soon they will loose the Harley soul". I guess he thinks I'm dumber than he is.

If done well I told the wife that it will actually solve some of common problems of the air cooled bikes.

Don't worry!!!!! They will still have plenty of soul: excessive pinion shaft runout, wheel weight dents in your front fender, mushy suspension, under powered, overheating, bad aerodynamics, pinched flywheels and don't forget that famous Death Wobble!!! now thats what I call soul!

They have tried for years to get us to stop buying them; and you think some water is going to do it  

[CVOThunder]

Build a bagger with a 120ci V-Rod type engine and the change in those looking at buying a Harley would be impressive. Ok, maybe my crystal ball is a bit cracked but I bet enough people would be interested to change camps. Could be the other way around though and people would leave. Once they get the bugs worked out I think they would sell. To just water cool the heads seems like a counter productive way to go and just a stop gap measure. If the MoCo is gonna leap, make it a change big enough to make the world take notice. A gradual release would offer those wanting water cooled engine an option along with those wanting air cooled. Make the case and then start phasing out air cooled. JM2C

[Gecko]

   Great, another fluid to leak.  Another opportunity for the dealers to say you'll void the warranty if you use anybody elses' water.  Cooling fans that fail after two years; New bearings (or a "water pump support plate") to go out.  Screamin' Eagle high performance thermostat upgrade!  Chrome radiator overflow tank covers by Kuryakin.  Ported and polished water jacket holes.  Coolant in the oil.  Oil in the coolant.  The inevitable after-market supplemental radiator because the stock one will still run hot.  Water pump shaft runout.  The coolant tank will be behind the fairing and require partial disassembly to flush it.  It will be four years before they eliminate some ugly black rubber hose in plain view.  A performance enhancement to re-wire the fan to come on with the ignition switch.  And no temp gauge unless you put one in yourself.

[Opossum]

That patent was approved and published in May

  http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/06/20/harley-davidson-water-cooled-heads-patent/    pretty cool article

[grc]

Build a bagger with a 120ci V-Rod type engine and the change in those looking at buying a Harley would be impressive. Ok, maybe my crystal ball is a bit cracked but I bet enough people would be interested to change camps. Could be the other way around though and people would leave. Once they get the bugs worked out I think they would sell. To just water cool the heads seems like a counter productive way to go and just a stop gap measure. If the MoCo is gonna leap, make it a change big enough to make the world take notice. A gradual release would offer those wanting water cooled engine an option along with those wanting air cooled. Make the case and then start phasing out air cooled. JM2C

Much of what H-D does is just stop gap or catch up.  So this little detour on the road to the 21st century sort of fits right in with how they run the business. 

Assuming that patent is real, I find it rather sad that our system has become so screwed up that folks can apply for and be granted patents on stuff that has already been in use for many decades.  I've noticed that H-D has really embraced the whole idea of wallpapering headquarters with patents since the Twin Cam came out, in an obvious effort to squash the aftermarket guys.  But how do you enforce a patent that basically says you are just going to apply existing technology to your product?


Jerry

[cvobiker]

"....it's Harley Davidson's plans to water cool the heads on their touring models by hiding the cooling system within the leg shield portions of the fairing."

Does that mean that all touring models will come with leg fairings or the water cooled heads will only be on those models with leg fairings?

"[/i]

My guess is; they'll figure out a way to stuff the cooling contraption in an air dam on the Softails, Dyna's and who knows what the'll do with the Sportster line, maybe replace them with a VRod engine ?  

And what's going to happen with the 'ole trusty oil coolers?? eliminated ??

[spydglide]

Sounds as if they employ more lawyers than design engineers.  Patents instead of innovation.  aaaarrgh.  spyder

[Twolanerider]

Had seen that ostensive patent filing (never interested enough to check out its authenticity) before.  First reaction then and now is what a Rube Goldberg contraption that is to accomplish the most basic and minimal water cooling that could possibly be added.  Me and another big guy could stand beside the bike and wizz and do nearly as much (if you discount the odor).

Another reaction to that ugly mess was "oh, a P&A driven idea."  The whole thing could be retrofit with a cylinder head change.  Admittedly Mother Harley probably won't.  But god I hope they offer up something more effective and aesthetic than that mess.

[miker]

I will order a HD Nova when they have a cvo of it..no, prolly not.

[Mr D]

I will order a HD Nova when they have a cvo of it..no, prolly not.
[/quote

Looks like a '83 FXRT i bought new, Fun to ride too, Not the best looking though