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[DCFIREMANN]

I was over at Zippers yesterday. I actually held one of the new closed loop units. All I can say is it is very nice. They also had a few test bikes there with the unit installed. These were all from 88's to a monster 124. I even saw a new street glide fuelie with a new 120 on it. It had some GREAT NUMBERS. HP and TQ were both right at 140. Now that would be fun to ride.

After talking to Dan about it he said about 2 weeks or so till they are ready to hit the streets.

Over the weekend I visited a friend in Georgia. He left the area 6 months ago to take a job as service manger for a HD Dealership. We talked a lot about the shop and how he is trying to turn things around for the better. He has known about the Thunder Max for some time now. Like a few I have talked to in the past he also was waiting on the closed loop system. His shop does a lot of performance mods with Race Tuners. He is now ready to toss the RT aside for the Thunder Max. He told me even with the difference in cost he can save the customer money and have a better and more responsive product on the bike. He also told me that the MOCO is trying to part with the SE product line. I guess time will tell.

I did ask to have a new T Max set aside for Punkin after it is released. Even though I will have a good map loaded in the unit I like the real time tuning that the unit will give me down the road.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[SBB]

I hear ya Dawg!

So your guy is ready to toss the race tuner for the thunder-max.


That should provoke an interesting response from GRC.

[Twolanerider]

Thanks Mike.  Appreciate the hands on report of their progress.  Guess I'll be getting one of the first several product releases when the red parts get done.  Something else to look forward to  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] .

[DCFIREMANN]

I hear ya Dawg!

So your guy is ready to toss the race tuner for the thunder-max.


[highlight]That should provoke an interesting response from GRC.[/highlight]

A very good quote from the KING STIRER OF THE POT!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

He can dislike it all he wants. If he tried the 4.0 version there is no way he can dislike it. It is that good. I know I have it. That bike rides better then it ever has. I just want to see the numbers.

As far as my guy droping the race tuner. He is not my guy just a friend of many years. He has been in the trade with HD  and other shops for over 20 years. From machine work and line tech to service and general manager. I think he is very qualified to make that decision. I just got a hold of the new HD screamin eagle catalog and I can tell you it is about half of what it use to be. So I would say he was right when he told me HD was going to get away from it. If you can change a set of mufflers add a free flow air cleaner and change the o2 sensors and add the Thunder Max then just take it for a drive and let it tune its self. I think would be a great selling point for even the dealers.

If HD drops the race tuner ( and I think they will) what are all of these dealers going to do? I guess pass the performance work over to the aftermarket shops. If it will become a warranty issue (and it will) they will also distance them selfs from the performance upgrades.

We will know in less than 2 weeks just how good the new version is. As of now it is already on Punkin. I just got off the phone with Dan and that is what they are using to tune the bike.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Thanks Mike.

[Twolanerider]

BTW Don they look great. I saw the cylinders setting in the boring tank with the TQ plates bolted to them. By the time you read this I can assure the cylinders are done!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Good news.  Thanks again.  Hopefully the heads will see the sharp end of a CNC machine right away too and then finish the valve job.  Would be nice to have the parts back here before departing for MV just so I'd be able to see them before leaving.  But the work won't get done until some time after the return anyway.  Already got a small pile here waiting for the rest of the pieces.  Plug wires, plugs, 02 bungs, the head bolt bridges, velva mounts, MystFree breathers, guess that's about it.  Wish I could find a Feuling cam plate on some smoking deal someplace.  But short of a major bargain-barn-find there's apparently not much gain to be had there.

[Fired00d]

BTW Don they look great. I saw the cylinders setting in the boring tank with the TQ plates bolted to them. By the time you read this I can assure the cylinders are done!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

How long should we make Don wait before you show him the pictures?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Twolanerider]

How long should we make Don wait before you show him the pictures?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Pictures would of course always be fun Gary.   But I can't ride them and can't install them.  So, well.... no biggie.

[Fired00d]

Pictures would of course always be fun Gary.

[Twolanerider]

You're no fun today I can't even get you to tell me I'm "number one" in your life. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

But D00d, some things just go without saying  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] .

[Fired00d]

But D00d, some things just go without saying

[DCFIREMANN]

[highlight]How long should we make Don wait before you show him the pictures? [/highlight] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

DOOD dumb a$$ me forgot the camera so I have no pics at this time. I am going back tomorrow to pick Punkin up (I hope ) and will try to get some then.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Good news.

[SBB]

Dawg

Help me understand!

your statement,
"add the Thunder Max then just take it for a drive and let it tune its self."

Now I'm thinking,,, Whoohoo that's cool

Then your next statement,
"As of now it is already on Punkin. I just got off the phone with Dan and that is what they are using to tune the bike."

Now I'm really confused,
Does it tune itself or does Danny have to tune it?
Don't make me call in Unbalanced for the rest of the story!

As far as,
"A very good quote from the KING STIRER OF THE POT!!!!!!!!!! LMAO"

Remember, I don't want no stinkin title,
I want a position, so the checks can roll in!
Ask the moderators, having a title ain't no fun and games.
Show us the money!

And DAWG,
I mess with you cause you take it soooo well!  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]


 
 

[DCFIREMANN]

Dawg

Help me understand!

your statement,
"add the Thunder Max then just take it for a drive and let it tune its self."

Now I'm thinking,,, Whoohoo that's cool

Then your next statement,
"As of now it is already on Punkin. I just got off the phone with Dan and that is what they are using to tune the bike."

Now I'm really confused,
Does it tune itself or does Danny have to tune it?
Don't make me call in Unbalanced for the rest of the story!

As far as,
"A very good quote from the KING STIRER OF THE POT!!!!!!!!!! LMAO"

Remember, I don't want no stinkin title,
I want a position, so the checks can roll in!
Ask the moderators, having a title ain't no fun and games.
Show us the money!

And DAWG,
I mess with you cause you take it soooo well!

[Unbalanced]

Chip the map is only the starting point that they put in place to allow the tuning to be more subtle than it would be if it was starting with all zeros or an 88 map.   The idea is to get you going without the bucking and pinging while it learns your habits and the efficiency of each cyclinder through the wide band o2 sensors.   Basically it gets you out the door so its not frustrating the first few hours you ride it and it also helps to ensure that its safe to ride from the git go.

-harry

[SBB]

Dawg

I knew you would have a good answer!
See ya in da Valley!

 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Hey

Breaking in the Frontier has been fun. But painfully time consuming.
Have crossed that 3000rpm threshold with a few burst to 4K.
Did find out tonight that at 100 mph that Jim's RSD 6 speed has the motor turning 3500 rpm.
That temporary S/E 264 cam pulls hard from 3K up.
Was gonna see what 4K would show but ran out of daylight. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

Chip it sounds like a fun ride. What cams are you going to run after breakin??? I can't wait to see it in the valley.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Boatman]

Does this closed loop system do anything for us 04-05 SEEG's that don't have oxygen sensors?

[Special_Ed]

Chip the map is only the starting point that they put in place to allow the tuning to be more subtle than it would be if it was starting with all zeros or an 88 map.

[DCFIREMANN]

Does this closed loop system do anything for us 04-05 SEEG's that don't have oxygen sensors?

[DCFIREMANN]

Harry,

My understanding is that a closed loop will maintain a level to meet EPA standards. It works on the same idea as an automotive closed loop. When the modifications are installed on the motor the computer will adjust to meet the changes but is it adjusting for performance or to keep the motor within EPA standards? My question is how is F/A curve limited? or a basline established for perfomance?

Thanks,
Ed

Ed it will have a performance curve unlike your stock ECM and O2 sensors. It will adjust for performance. You will have a base map for your mods and it will adjust it from there.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

Ed it will have a performance curve unlike your stock ECM and O2 sensors. It will adjust for performance. You will have a base map for your mods and it will adjust it from there.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Another question.  What range of targets can be established?  For example; if one lived in a state with emissions testing (a sniff test) could he hook up his laptop, set the system for a slightly leaned out mixture and then after the sniff test is done reset the system to chase a more aggressive fuel curve?  As I understood the system would be not just variable but programmable.  But I've not been given absolute confirmation of that fact.

[jdk20723]

Don, correct.  You will be able to program the target AFR.  You can adjust for performance or economy, or anywhere in between.  In the future, you will be able to make the adjustments from our digital speedometer using the mode buttons, and watch live AFR readings within the speedo LED readout, no computer required (coming in 2007).  JK

[Special_Ed]

Don, correct.

[Garznhogs]

DAWG, you got any rough cost figures?  It doesn't qualify for OCD, but should for SEO.
--Weld 2 bungs [size=10](I like that word)[/size], I have the stock headers, so front, and rear at the "Y"? $+-
--Sensors (to put in the BUNGS)...$
--TMax...$
--SERT currently 'installed'... Oh, wait, I know that one.... $worthless [smiley=_blank.gif]
I'm guessing the map now in the ECM for my mods would be the starting point.
Whatever the price, it'd be worth it not to have to screw with dyno[smiley=rifle.gif]tuning.
Thanks,
Garz

[Twolanerider]

Don, correct.

[DCFIREMANN]

Jk,
[highlight]Is there any information in print form or web site that has more detailed explanation of operation? Sounds like a great product.[/highlight]
Ed

Ed I am going to try to have info and a real life system in MV if you are going.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

DAWG, you got any rough cost figures?

[DCFIREMANN]

OK I just got home from Zippers with Punkin. She has to go back as we were running out of time. The bike now has a D&D fat cat with the performance baffle. This pipe (if you are looking for high numbers) is too small for this motor. It did perform very well though. The basic map is done but not complete. There is still more HP and TQ left in this bike. Today Punkin spun 126 square. The TQ curve comes in at 100 ft lbs at 2500 at 3200 it is at 126 ft lbs and stays there till over 5000. For a true touring bike this is great. Running 65 mph in 6th gear and gently roll the throttle it hits 85 right now. Great for passing on the highway. I am going back after MV to have the map completed and the rest of the testing completed with other exhaust systems.

Even though the numbers are not that high as of yet it rides great. I was very surprised. The throttle response is great. If I had to do this all over again I would have gone the same route. Zippers also likes the numbers to be real. If this means they are low so be it. They will not pad the book and would rather they be lower and very reliable.  

The bike does not have the O2 sensors on it now but will when I return and make the final exhaust selection. The map is a new map set up for the closed loop system so all I need to do is install it and go!

I would like to thank the staff at Zippers for the great job.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Garznhogs]

I do not have any figures as of yet. Remember members of this site get a break on the price.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

When ya get 'em will be fine! Thanks. I gotta check out other possible problems first.  Price breaks are good things, too!
Garz

[DCFIREMANN]

I also forgot to mention. After talking with Dan today he mentioned that the Zippers team will be in Myrtle Beach for the fall rally. Oct 4th through the 8th. If anyone with an 06 Dyna or any of the 07 models that would like to try the new closed loop system they will be set up at Broadway at The Beach. They will have the new system there ready to sell and install the units.

If you have an eariler bike and have an exhaust system with the bungs already installed in the pipe you can also purchase a system. They will not be able to uninstall or install exhaust systems.

And like the older version of the Thunder Max. You have a 30 trial period. If for any reason with in 30 days if you don't like or want the unit just return it for a full refund.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[SBB]

I would like to thank the staff at Zippers for the great job.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

DAWG

Wake up
Thank Zippers HELL!
It appears they have created a good product but guess what!
If it is good they will sell a boatload of them.

If anybody is to be thanked, Zippers ought to be thanking you.
For almost two years I listen and read your praises of Zippers.
Lots of people on this site have Zippers parts.
I thank you and that other guy in Florida (what's his name) for that.
I can only hope that has been some consideration for you through this learning curve with them.
Good job Dawg
Hope Punkin can keep up! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]


Hmmm was that other guys name Outof balance?

[grc]

DAWG, you got any rough cost figures?

[Boatman]

Pat from Zipper's quoted me today at $429.95 for the TMax and $399.95 for the 02 sensors, wiring kit.

[DCFIREMANN]

Pat from Zipper's quoted me today at $429.95 for the TMax and $399.95 for the 02 sensors, wiring kit.

[DCFIREMANN]

Actually, the T-Max replaces your stock ECM (another part to throw in the take-off box in the basement).

[DCFIREMANN]

DAWG

Wake up
Thank Zippers HELL!
It appears they have created a good product but guess what!
If it is good they will sell a boatload of them.

If anybody is to be thanked, Zippers ought to be thanking you.
For almost two years I listen and read your praises of Zippers.
Lots of people on this site have Zippers parts.
I thank you and that other guy in Florida (what's his name) for that.
I can only hope that has been some consideration for you through this learning curve with them.
Good job Dawg
[highlight]Hope Punkin can keep up[/highlight]! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]


Hmmm was that other guys name Outof balance?

Most likely not, more cubes and a lighter bike. But it you want to tango with something I think I know where there is a Red Dyna with a brand new motor that is just about finished that I think you could get a real good view of it's TAIL LIGHTS!!!!!!!

Looking forward to seeing the new ride in MV.

OUT OF BALANCED? LMAO!!!!!!!! You are still THE KING!!!!!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Special_Ed]

Ed I am going to try to have info and a real life system in MV if you are going.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Sounds good, look forward to seeing it and meeting you Dawg.

Ed

[DCFIREMANN]

Actually, the T-Max replaces your stock ECM (another part to throw in the take-off box in the basement).

[DCFIREMANN]

Pat from Zipper's quoted me today at $429.95 for the TMax and $399.95 for the 02 sensors, wiring kit.

[Boatman]

DC-

Thanks for taking the time and effort to  check into it for all of us.  Just about anything off of full list would be nice.  Anybody can buy something at full price, it's nice to  at least think you are getting a deal.  

[grc]

Jerry I am kind of curious. Who's system was this and is it a wide band closed loop system. The only ones I am aware of right now are all narrow band.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

DAWG,

I believe it was Terry Components Terminal Velocity system that I was thinking of; Daytona Twin-Tek is another.  

Jerry

[PoorUrbanHdBiker]

So does the new Thundermax use the map sensor or is it still Alpha-n? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[jdk20723]

Alpha-N all the way.  There are those that do not like Alpha-N systems, but with proper mapping, processor speed and enough resolution (what the early H-D system lacked), Alpha-N works fine, even better with higher degrees of engine modification than a "speed density" system.  Speed density relies heavily on the MAP sensor input, and can be confused with longer duration camshafts and an uneven engine such as the Harley.  If you research it, you'll find that most all performance EFI systems are Alpha-N based, regardless of application.  

This is not to say the factory speed density system can't be made to perform well; it will require a skilled tuner with in-depth experience with the race tuner software some time on a dyno to build a map for the application.  Which brings us back to the "proper mapping" I mentioned earlier.  With the ThunderMax's growing library of base maps, and now the addition of the Auto-Tune wide band closed loop option, the need for extensive (expensive?) dyno time is minimized, even eliminated.

There are those that will argue these points endlessly.  This is why we offer the buy-it-back guarantee.  The best way to decide is to try it!  Thanks, JK

[Robmay]

I also forgot to mention. After talking with Dan today he mentioned that the Zippers team will be in Myrtle Beach for the fall rally. Oct 4th through the 8th. If anyone with an 06 Dyna or any of the 07 models that would like to try the new closed loop system they will be set up at Broadway at The Beach. They will have the new system there ready to sell and install the units.

If you have an eariler bike and have an exhaust system with the bungs already installed in the pipe you can also purchase a system. They will not be able to uninstall or install exhaust systems.

And like the older version of the Thunder Max. You have a 30 trial period. If for any reason with in 30 days if you don't like or want the unit just return it for a full refund.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Dawg,

A couple of questions:

First, what would it mean if Harley gets rid of the SE Line?? No more? Someone else takes it over? I have my first CVO on order and I am curious.

Second, I purchased a Tmax at the Spring Myrtle Beach Rally from Zippers for my 05 UC. Great folks. I had to take advantage of the 30 day refund however because as we found out later, I did not get a MAP on my disk when they gave it to me. I ended up with a demo disk according to one of their techs, and was not able to adjust it afetr getting home.  I waited (and waited) to no avail for a new disk and finally just asked for my money back which they readily complied with. I think they have great products, I just fell thru the crack some how. Maybe growing pains. I do however have their K&N Air Filter kit on my 05 Ultra (stock, other than Dobeck TFI and Bassani true duals and SE Muffs) Finally my question: I would really rather NOT go with  the SERT. With the 07 SEUC,  Basani true dulas with 02 sensors (hopefully), .... what type of muffs should I use with this new Tmax?
                a). SoftBrake 3" interior Muffs
                b). V&H Ovals
                c) SE Muffs off my 2005 Ultra
                d) Something else (besides 2 into 1)

Also what about the Air? Zipper K&N again??

Hope this makes sense!

[DCFIREMANN]

Dawg,

A couple of questions:

First, what would it mean if Harley gets rid of the SE Line?? No more? Someone else takes it over? I have my first CVO on order and I am curious.

Second, I purchased a Tmax at the Spring Myrtle Beach Rally from Zippers for my 05 UC. Great folks. I had to take advantage of the 30 day refund however because as we found out later, I did not get a MAP on my disk when they gave it to me. I ended up with a demo disk according to one of their techs, and was not able to adjust it afetr getting home.

[UK Dave]

Yes on the Zippers or K&N air filter. As far as mufflers go. It is all a matter of prefrence. What does your ears like to hear. The Tmax closed loop will be right down your alley. I can't believe they didn't get you a disk. I guess anyone can make a mistake

[Robmay]

Yes on the Zippers or K&N air filter. As far as mufflers go. It is all a matter of prefrence. What does your ears like to hear. The Tmax closed loop will be right down your alley. I can't believe they didn't get you a disk. I guess anyone can make a mistake  I would say you really fell through the cracks.  

[highlight]As far as the SE line of performance parts. I don't think anyone will pick it up once it is dropped. The problem is not with the parts but with the EPA. To the MOCO and its dealers it is not worth the fine.  [/highlight]

Be Safe

THE DAWG

So, does this mean they will continue to make the SE bike (street legal) just not the "race" accessories?

[Robmay]

Oh.... also I am STOKED that Zippers will be at Biketoberfest!! I sure hope my SEUC makes it in by then!!

[DCFIREMANN]

[highlight]So, does this mean they will continue to make the SE bike (street legal) just not the "race" accessories?

[/highlight]

I would think so since the SE line is the hottest selling line that the MOCO has as of right now.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Oh.... also I am STOKED that [highlight]Zippers will be at Biketoberfest!! [/highlight]I sure hope my SEUC makes it in by then!!

Yes they will and they will have the new Tmax with the O2 sensors with them for installation. I am not sure where they will be set up but I can check for you.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Robmay]

Yes they will and they will have the new Tmax with the O2 sensors with them for installation. I am not sure where they will be set up but I can check for you.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

 [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]

They will be at Destination Daytona (the Big Harley Shop ) at I-95 and US-1 according to their website.

[Unbalanced]

JDK,

Do you have any idea which sensors o2 I mean that you will be bringing as they can range in cost from like 90 bucks up and up.   Also JDK can you tell us approximate distance from Exaust port that people should be looking to install the Bung (Welded in threaded nut which you insert the Oxygen Sensor into)  Then run the wire to the Computer (Thundermax) unit.

The reason I ask is Danny was not set on which sensors you would be offering the last time I spoke with him about this, and it will help give people an idea of cost so they can be prepared to purchase them at the Event.  Will you be installing the bungs at BikeWeek and setting up the system on Ultra's or the SE EG as they allow for the touch screen system on the console.

If the T-Max can be used with the Batwing Faring Bikes such as  SEEGS and the 06/07 SE Ultra's is a computer necessary with a serial port or can it be used with a usb1.0 or usb2.0 port.

Thanks,

-harry

[jdk20723]

Harry,

How are you doing?  Will we see you at Daytona?

The sensors are part of the Auto-Tune kit.  The kit sells for $399, includes the 2 wide-band sensors and the Auto-Tune module.  Replacement sensors are $89.95 each.  They should be mounted 4-6" from the exhaust port, at the top of the pipe (like the 2007 HD's).  They will install as a direct replacement for the factory 2007 narrow band units, making installation on the '07 models a breeze.  The Auto-Tune module simply plugs into the factory data port plug under the seat and communicates the data that the oxygen sensors are reading in the pipe to the ThunderMax through that plug.  The ThunderMax then makes automatic adjustments to the fuel map to keep the AFR at the target output (which you can dictate through the software).  All done in milliseconds!

I've attached a flyer on the Auto-Tune module.

We won't be able to install bungs in existing pipes at Daytona.  We are looking at ways to possibly do this in the future.

"Ultra's or the SE EG as they allow for the touch screen system on the console."  I'm not sure what you mean here.  The system does work on all Delphi models through 2007.

Thanks, JK

[Boatman]

JDK-

Thanks for the link showing the Auto tune kit.

[jdk20723]

Because the exhaust industry will soon step up and start supplying pipes with bungs in them (and 2007 models won't need them), we will offer these separate for those that will need them.  JK

[icybay]

I just got the D&D Fat Cats and they came with the bungs already installed.

[Eqcons]

Harry,

The sensors are part of the Auto-Tune kit.

[Twolanerider]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, JK, on a 07 CUSE

[Unbalanced]

Optional ThunderMax Digital Speedometer for 2004-Up EFI models w/ 5

[DCFIREMANN]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, JK, on a 07 CUSE

[icybay]

Well I hope what you are seeing for MPG will rub off on MY SEEG  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]. I am running the TMax etc. on the 103 and I think I am getting about the same as everyone else I know,  :o35 mpg, (OK I lied, 33MPG) :-/,  and I am not complaining, and I am definitely not running around on cruise control and coasting down the hills to get a few extra MPG if you know what I mean) [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif], but where are you getting this 50% better mileage from-inquiring minds need to know [smiley=confused5.gif].  By the way I have already got my name on a closed loop system from JDK, so I am already a  happy Zippers customer. [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

[Texas 103]

Amen>>>> I called Pete today  to order and he said they weren't ready to ship yet....and I  accused him of holding out on me because the DAWG was already dialed in with closed loop.  $730  or what ever they are is a bargin!... for what they do. Invest 30 + in your scoot and what the hell  is another 750 to get it right >>>> I'll do it all day long!>>>  Been thru the SERT game and spent $$$ in Sturgis for a tune up. Dawg, did you get us a "Sweeheart deal " yet???....I personally think the T-MAX  is  a Damn good product and cant' wait for the closed loop .  A happy  T-MAX'er>>> Greg  

[Eqcons]

I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating - we'll see how good it is in time I guess.  That'll say whether it's worth the money or not.

Jim

[DCFIREMANN]

Well I hope what you are seeing for MPG will rub off on MY SEEG

[roadrunner]

Will the T-MAX ECU I purchased over a month ago work with the auto-tune setup?  If I read the post right, the auto-tune plugs into the HD harness under the seat?  All I would need to do is get bungs welded on the head pipes. Correct?  Anyone have any pic's of bungs they had welded?
Excellent product the TMax, no more poppin and better fuel milage, not to mention better performance. Thanks,  John

[Boatman]

RR-

Your Thundermax will work with the Autotune.  I received my bungs today.  $13 ea for the bungs and $13 each for the plugs.  You don 't need the plugs but I am doing the cam install this winter (installing bungs while pipes off) and will get the Tmax and auto tune in the early spring (probably can't wait that long though).  The fellow I bought from said they would give forum members a discount like the cams once they are released.  Basically look at any 07 touring bike and you can see the bung nipples welded to the pipes and the O2 sensors screwed in.

[Twolanerider]

$13 each for a 02 bungs is a bit pricey Bob.  Last set I got came from an Autozone and were less than $10.00 for the pair.

[jfh]

Last year I installed the T-Max on a 2006 Dyna two weeks after driving it home and was satisfied with the performance despite the initial 30% loss of fuel ecomomy. I was able to get it back to 42 MPG with some tuning after learning how to use the T-Max software. However, that was version 3.0 and no closed loop. I have since replaced the Dyna with an 07 FLHTC and have been waiting for the closed loop upgrade in order to install the T-Max on the new 96".  I have updated the firmware for my T-Max and downloaded the newer Smartlink IV tuning software in anticipation of the new closed loop upgrade.  I pre-ordered the closed loop upgrade and continue to wait for it to be shipped. I saw that Zipper's now have a base map available in their database for the '07 which leads me to believe that they are closer to releasing the system.  I must say that I am a bit disappointed to read here that Zipper's will have the new systems available for purchase and installation at Myrtle this weekend, yet have still not shipped mine.  Hopefully it will arrive soon.

[Robmay]

Last year I installed the T-Max on a 2006 Dyna two weeks after driving it home and was satisfied with the performance despite the initial 30% loss of fuel ecomomy. I was able to get it back to 42 MPG with some tuning after learning how to use the T-Max software. However, that was version 3.0 and no closed loop. I have since replaced the Dyna with an 07 FLHTC and have been waiting for the closed loop upgrade in order to install the T-Max on the new 96".  I have updated the firmware for my T-Max and downloaded the newer Smartlink IV tuning software in anticipation of the new closed loop upgrade.  I pre-ordered the closed loop upgrade and continue to wait for it to be shipped. I saw that Zipper's now have a base map available in their database for the '07 which leads me to believe that they are closer to releasing the system.  [highlight]I must say that I am a bit disappointed to read here that Zipper's will have the new systems available for purchase and installation at Myrtle this weekend, yet have still not shipped mine. [/highlight] Hopefully it will arrive soon.

Thats a good point.

[DCFIREMANN]

The new units were not in when the crew left for Myrtle. The shipment was LATE!!!!!! I am waiting on one to take to MV for everyone to look at. At this time I don't know if that will happen. I am also waiting on all of the new lit for the unit. I am going to check tomorrow with JK and see if the new units arrived as of late last week.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[jfh]

I called today and John Wiliams said "...any day now."

[Robmay]

Okay, I have a question on all this stuff. PLease don't get mad at me because I do not know a lot about this subject. I have a freind that is a good mechanic. They way I understand what he tells me (which of course could be wrong) is that the 07's can "self tune" themselves while riding and that with a SERT installed and a MAP that allows the parameters to be more real world and less EPA it will do what this Tmax unit with the self adjusting tuner does. So is this anywhere near right or I am relaying to him the wrong info therefore getting the wrong info in return? If not could someone lay it down to me in laymans terms? In other words, so a third grader could understand?  

Also, what exactly does MOCO stand for? I am guessing it is the manufacturer?

THANKS!!

[Boatman]

Rob-
I'm probably not the best person to answer but I'll try.  Others please correct me where wrong or to make more clear.   Your 07 can self tune to a certain extent when making a change such as a muffler or air cleaner (narrow band 02 sensors).   You normally have to have some sort of dyno time to dial in a SERT..  With the Thundermax and autotune, Zipper's supplies a base map in their TMax and the autotune 02 sensors are wide band and tune each cylinder for each and every driving condition while you drive and no dyno tune is needed.  The Tmax and autotune operate and make changes from full hot to full cold where as the 07 sensors do not.  I may be all wet, but that's what I think I know.  Like I said, many on this site have forgot more than I know.  
MOCO stands for HD motor company..

[DCFIREMANN]

Boatman you are very close. The narrow band sensors do in fact self tune ( the way the MOCO wants it to) to meet and stay within EPA specs. Also the narrow band sensors are either open or closed during their operation. The Zippers wide band actually reads what temps the exhaust is and will adjust the fuel to stay within a TARGET AIR FUEL mixture that you can program in the Thunder Max. If you program in 13.1 it will stay there untill you change it to another setting. It can also adjust for performance or economy.

The new system is way ahead of its time.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Robmay]

Boatman you are very close. The narrow band sensors do in fact self tune ([highlight] the way the MOCO wants it to) to meet and stay within EPA specs. [/highlight]Also the narrow band sensors are either open or closed during their operation. The Zippers wide band actually reads what temps the exhaust is and will adjust the fuel to[highlight] stay within a TARGET AIR FUEL mixture that you can program in the Thunder Max.[/highlight] If you program in 13.1 it will stay there untill you change it to another setting. It can also adjust for performance or economy.

The new system is way ahead of its time.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

First, thanks Boatman. I have a better understanding now with your explanation.  

Dawg,

The first highlight - even if I have a SERT? WHen I set a certain MAP for say true duals, AC & certain mufflers will the SEUC adjust accordingly or will it still stay within the parameters that MOCO set into the ECM? Or will it go within the new parameters of the SERT?

Second highlight - Will the SERT not do this? Set A/F ratio?

Thanks again for all of your help! The clock is ticking as my Smurf is due in this week and I plan to have the Bassani's installed by Softbrake in Daytona next week so I will either need to put in a SERT or a TMAX while in Daytona as well, and then get the Auto tuner when it becomes available.

This may be important. I ride 2 up 85% of the time. Use the bike for long day trips or weekend trips so its usually loaded. Do at least 15,000 miles per year. Want the most power I can get and stay at a decent MPG. I am like Ron Popiel - I like to "set it and forget it". I do my own oil changes and accessories but leave the motor work to the real mechanics. I like long walks on the beach at night in mid summer. The feel of that first hint of fall in the air....... oh sorry, wrong topic.  

[DCFIREMANN]

First, thanks Boatman. I have a better understanding now with your explanation.

[hdfatboy]

I did talk to JK today. They are still waiting on the shipment. I was told anyday now. They are willing to ship one to MV for me to show everyone and to hook up my Thunder Max to my lap top. If it were me I would be on the list for the Thunder Max.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

DC or anyone else:
I've spoken to Zippers twice over the past twenty days. One call with Steve (everyone in a meeting) and one call with John (everyone in Myrtle & phone ringin' off the hook in the background).
They seem to really be rockin' with the past two Biketoberfest weeks. They too are telling me any day which has now been since my first call the third week of Sept.

[Eqcons]

Are we going to be having a group buy on these?  

Jim

[jfh]

DC or anyone else:
I've spoken to Zippers twice over the past twenty days. One call with Steve (everyone in a meeting) and one call with John (everyone in Myrtle & phone ringin' off the hook in the background).
They seem to really be rockin' with the past two Biketoberfest weeks. They too are telling me any day which has now been since my first call the third week of Sept.

[icybay]

I also am on the list, been there for some time.  I was told it was shipping about 10 days ago when I got a JIMS 120 kit with TMax- but no closed loop system has arrived yet. [smiley=confused5.gif] Hope they dont sell out their pre orders at Myrtle, that wouldn't be good.

[GasRat]

I would be intereted if a group buy could happen.

[electraglideclyde]

I would be intereted if a group buy could happen.

I'd love to be in on that myself. I've been running on a borrowed PCIII waiting for this closed loop system to hit the market.  

[Rhino]

RE: Zippers/Thunderheart Closed Loop....   Destination Daytona..  I picked up the Wide Band Kit, software and the ECM from Zippers on Thursday from John.     He seemed to indicate they had plenty at the time.  

When I went back today, Sunday, around noon, most everyone was packing up except for a few vendors cleanin up with 'lower price giveaways.'  

BTW, Sunday was not the day to see much since the rest of the stuff around Daytona, Speedway, Beach Street etc, was a ghost town compared to Rossmeyers Destination at Ormond Beach.

As for Zippers, as of right now, they do not have any maps for a 110  FLHTCUSE2, but should next week. He said they had a 110 in the shop temporarily donated.  They will upload it as soon as it's completed. In the meantime, not sure what base map would be worth a try or not.



Rhino

[Twolanerider]

I picked up the Wide Band Kit, software and the ECM from Zippers on Thursday from John.

[icybay]

I can not understand the thinking (or lack of thinking) at Zippers. Total BS if it is actually true that they are selling to new customers prior to filling back orders. Reminds me of when I am at a parts counter with cash in hand and they pick up the phone and BS  for ten minutes to soimeone and sell them the last item  while I am left to fume.  Excellent way to lose customers-no matter how good the product. Pretty sure everyone feels this way.

[SBB]

Doesn't make you like it any better though.

And I reply to that,

Very well said Don!  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Twolanerider]

And I reply to that,

Very well said Don!

[SBB]

It's unfortunate to have to assume that Zippers made the choice they did here.

We all know what happens when we assume!
Lets hope that our assumptions are wrong.
Hopefully Zippers does have a logical explanation.

[highlight]And if they don't,
remember,
it's all Dawg's fault![/highlight]

[size=9]that Dawg comment was my somewhat lackluster attempt to put humour in a bad situation.[/size]

[Twolanerider]

[size=9]that Dawg comment was my somewhat lackluster attempt to put humour in a bad situation.[/size]

[size=9]Funny thing I'd thought about doing pretty much the same thing.[/size]

[size=8](then realized the whole thing just made me grumpy)[/size]

[Ironhorse]

Well this explains a lot of things to me.

Among my many issues with my Marelli - TMAX conversion kit was the speedometer/self cancelling turn signal issue. Dan Fitzmaurice told me that the problem is being resolved, and that I am due to get a new ECM that takes care of the problem, and is compatible with the closed loop system. Of course all of this is on hold while they "await the delivery" of certain ECM internal boards and stuff. I was told that once these parts get in, the ECM will be completed, and it will be shipped to me. So I placed myself on the waiting list for the closed loop unit to go with the new ECM.

Now I come to find out that the parts needed for the ECM and Closed Loop system have either not yet arrived, or they came in and were earmarked for Daytona.

[Ironhorse]

I'll answer my own question here.

Just got off the phone with Zippers, and they ARE NOT coming out to The Love Ride in November. So much for hoping to do a "Group Purchase" of the closed loop for those who have been sitting on the waiting list. The next vendor meet that they will be attending is Big Twin West in Las Vegas during the 1st week in December. After that it's back down to Daytona in March.

If they do not have the items ready by December, (and the way things have been going it's looking that way), I will consider heading to Las Vegas to pick mine up. If I do end up going I'll do a posting for those who would like me to pick theirs up too.

Mark

[Twolanerider]

If they do not have the items ready by December, (and the way things have been going it's looking that way), I will consider heading to Las Vegas to pick mine up. If I do end up going I'll do a posting for those who would like me to pick theirs up too.

Mark

Wouldn't that be bizarre (and unfortunate).

[Rhino]

Perhaps I should have been clearer.  I had ordered the Tmax and Closed loop many months ago, and they said they would bring it with them if they had one to the show.  The plenty that they had WERE pre-ordered pieces ready for pick up at the show. The standard ECM';s were also available for on the spot installs for those without a closed loop requirement, or, a 96 version or earlier.  The 07's 96ers may have been tried with a 103 map.

Rhino.  

so stop the blathering. I met the people from our site and they were pretty kewl and well aware of stock and backorders.  

[SBB]

[Rhino]

Oh yeah, one more update.  Zippers is awaiting completion of new software to not only fit the 110's, but the upgrade will also allow a faster method of changing the overall band AFR for performance, or economy. Now it is a bit complicated to change it.  In the future, they are working on a module that will externally, on board, allow for these AFR changes at will, but now, you need a laptop.  So if you have software 2006.14.16 it will be HOPEFULLY changed this week to include our 110's and various configurations.

Rhino

[Twolanerider]

Can't wait to see the response to that one!

 

But it was so much fun.  We were always speculating.  Though admittedly not tongue in cheek.  And there have been a couple of messages reporting stock for sale at the show.  So, blathering or not, it's still a question no one should be sanguine with until the company responds.  After all, that response is precisely what we've been waiting for.

[Rhino]

"Wouldn't that be bizarre (and unfortunate).  Patiently wait for weeks or months for parts, ready to offer your hard earned dollars, and then be put on hold behind show schedules at which you can show up and buy parts with the other strangers who never tried to be as good a customer as you were trying to be to begin with. "  


Ooops, I guess I must be that guy. Sorry I did'nt tell everyone what I was doing earlier on. But I only discovered this site not long ago. Further, I am not gonna even have my bike till mid Nov, my beatiful B & O CUSE2.....

Rhino

[Twolanerider]

Ooops, I guess I must be that guy. Sorry I did'nt tell everyone what I was doing earlier on. But I only discovered this site not long ago. Further, I am not gonna even have my bike till mid Nov, my beatiful B & O CUSE2.....

Rhino

Rhino, no apologies ever need be made for stocking up before delivery.

[jdk20723]

Whoa, fellas!  I just got back from Daytona.  Please allow me to set the FACTS straight.

Yes, we have received a (very) limited amount of kits.  No, we have not shipped any kits yet as instructions for installation and use have not been finalized.  We wanted to get some hands-on installation "in the field" and monitor some results on bikes other than our own stable of test units before we write instructions and release to the G.P.  

As much as this may piss some folks off, this is in everyone's best interest.  We want your experience to be without surprises.  And we have NO second class customers.

No one will be happier to ship these kits than us......we don't get paid until we do.  But we don't need to create problems by shipping them before they are ready for "Prime Time".  

Our few closed loop Daytona installs went well with the exception of a 2007 110 with a security system (we have more work to do here).  Please be patient.  We'll ship as soon as we are comfortable.  Thanks, JK

[Twolanerider]

As much as this may piss some folks off, this is in everyone's best interest.

[Rhino]

Hey Twolane, that was pretty funny but true.  BTW, Hi John, glad you are safely back home before you got run over by the maddening crowd!!!  Hehe, Keep us posted, and nice meeting you and the gang.

Rhino

[Eqcons]

Boatman I did get a chance to talk to Bill today on the Thunder Max pricing. He is going to get back to me in a few days on special pricing if he able to work up something.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Any progress on this, Dawg?

Jim

[Boatman]

Eqcons-

As of last week, they were still working on the price for us.  I think they want to get product for shipping.  Now that they're back from Daytona,  they may be able to get things sorted out for us.

[Ironhorse]

Whoa, fellas!

[Eqcons]

Eqcons-

As of last week, they were still working on the price for us.

[jfh]

...

[Ironhorse]

"If you need a local mule for controlled testing outside your stable"

Yea.....yea...... that's the ticket,
And if you need a mule for your earlier M&M Conversions with closed loop, let me be your field test.
Bruce Fisher can be your engineer and wrench on the project.

[Rhino]

[Twolanerider]

The waiting is killing me for sure since I sold my RK a month or more ago. I am trying to forget that mistake....

[DCFIREMANN]

Any progress on this, Dawg?

Jim

No progress as of yet as they were having fun in Daytona!!!!! YEA RIGHT.

I will be on the phone with them this week and find out what is up and since they are looking for test bikes I JUST HAPPEN TO KNOW where there is a PUNKIN just waiting for a closed loop system!!!!!! And a Borzilla!

Man I go away for a few days and look what happens. I wish I was here hell I could have gotten in a few shots. Thanks Chip I will be the responsible party for all of this Zippers chit!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Unbalanced]

JDK,

It was great seeing you, Danny and the guys again.  I was wondering if there is any word yet on the Alarm difficulties we ran into on the 07's with the AutoTune module?

-Harry

[hdfatboy]

DC or anyone else:
. . .

[jfh]

JK called and agreed to use my '07 Classic as a local mule for the closed loop upgrade for the T-Max.

[Rhino]

Rhino, I can sympathize man.

[jfh]

I dropped my '07 Classic off with JK today for the closed loop T-Max upgrade.  He said it would be ready for pick-up on Friday.

Then we started discussing a Muscle 117" kit.  Well, now the bike won't be ready for a month or so....