Topic: Boulder in the Primary, normal? (Read 4385 times)

smkblwr · « **on:** April 06, 2011, 06:48:27 PM »

2010 Ultra, 5250 miles, just got it back from replacing the motor, now there sound like a large rock smacking around in the primary when idling, 500miles since rebuild, hasn't been over 3k rpms, took it back and the service manager told me it was a "normal noise"before he even looked at it. against my better judgement i bit my lip and said "I think we are going to have a problem then". He said yea thats what HD has told them and there is no fix its normal. So i buy a 37000 dollor flag ship of a company to let it sit in the shop for repairs "crappy clear coat(still in debate on fixing it),blown shocks, blown motor, now primary noise"aka The Rock Crusher" for 6 out of the 9 months already that i have owned it. to have him tell me that its normal. Sorry to RANT but,

Has Anyone found a cure for this, or is an open primary my only option? or sell it, set it on fire, etc

grc · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2011, 07:41:55 PM »

Quote from: smkblwr on April 06, 2011, 06:48:27 PM

2010 Ultra, 5250 miles, just got it back from replacing the motor, now there sound like a large rock smacking around in the primary when idling, 500miles since rebuild, hasn't been over 3k rpms, took it back and the service manager told me it was a "normal noise"before he even looked at it. against my better judgement i bit my lip and said "I think we are going to have a problem then". He said yea thats what HD has told them and there is no fix its normal. So i buy a 37000 dollor flag ship of a company to let it sit in the shop for repairs "crappy clear coat(still in debate on fixing it),blown shocks, blown motor, now primary noise"aka The Rock Crusher" for 6 out of the 9 months already that i have owned it. to have him tell me that its normal. Sorry to RANT but,

Has Anyone found a cure for this, or is an open primary my only option? or sell it, set it on fire, etc

I'd suggest shoving it up that service mismanager's azz, if that is the best lie he can come up with.

Let me ask an obvious question. Are you saying that this is a noise that just started, after 5000 miles and having them replace the engine (which means they transfered all the primary stuff from the old engine to the new one, and probably screwed something up along the way)? If the noise is "normal", then it should have been there from day one. And it should also be on all the other 2010's, which is not the case.

I suggest you talk to someone higher up the food chain. Start with the general manager/dealer, and if you get the same sort of BS then find a manager at H-D itself. If that fails, check into your state's lemon law if it has one, or find a good lawyer.

Jerry

Half_Crazy · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2011, 07:56:50 PM »

Quote from: grc on April 06, 2011, 07:41:55 PM

I'd suggest shoving it up that service mismanager's azz

+1

mjb765 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2011, 08:03:46 PM »

Based on lemon laws, the first thing to do would be to confirm that this is not a normal noise. Hopefully your dealer will compare to another bike and then agree with you that there is a problem....if not have them write up a work order with your complaint and then make sure it's written on the order as a normal noise. Then it may be time to try another dealer for another opinion. Unfortunately you may get answers like "some make this noise and some don't--just ride it"

Does the noise change with the clutch in or out?

smkblwr · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2011, 08:34:24 PM »

grc that responce was hanging on my lips, hahaha
He said that it something to do with the SE comp, clutch basket and everything rotating at idle after everthing has broken in it will "clank" per HD. the tech that went to a update training class last month was told the same thing that it was a normal noise and there was no fix.

mjb765 i got the "some do some don't just ride it answer", so i asked what happens if it blows up during the dyno tuning, he said oh it won't do that.
the noise doesn't change with the clutch in or out, in gear or out of gear, sitting at a stop light i brought the RPMs up and it quieted down. it started about 100miles from the house, so i tried different things to stop it. engaging the clutch in gear "slipping it" seemed to quiet it a little. leaning the bike left and right didnt seem to make a difference, turning the radio up then down did make it go away, rang the gremlin bell several times but that didnt help eather.

thanks guys

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2011, 10:28:57 PM »

Quote from: smkblwr on April 06, 2011, 06:48:27 PM

2010 Ultra, 5250 miles, just got it back from replacing the motor, now there sound like a large rock smacking around in the primary when idling, 500miles since rebuild, hasn't been over 3k rpms, took it back and the service manager told me it was a "normal noise"before he even looked at it. against my better judgement i bit my lip and said "I think we are going to have a problem then". He said yea thats what HD has told them and there is no fix its normal. So i buy a 37000 dollor flag ship of a company to let it sit in the shop for repairs "crappy clear coat(still in debate on fixing it),blown shocks, blown motor, now primary noise"aka The Rock Crusher" for 6 out of the 9 months already that i have owned it. to have him tell me that its normal. Sorry to RANT but,

Has Anyone found a cure for this, or is an open primary my only option? or sell it, set it on fire, etc

I'm betting the compensator isn't installed properly or it isn't torqued to the correct specs.

Either way the noise is not normal and the primary cover needs to come back off to see what's what.

ALSO FWIW Harley has a factory rep you can meet with if you insist either with the dealer management or with HD Customer service.

I hope your problems are resolved to your satisfaction.

Regards

Jerry

sadunbar · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2011, 10:44:17 PM »

Quote from: CVOStreetglide on April 06, 2011, 10:28:57 PM

I'm betting the compensator isn't installed properly or it isn't torqued to the correct specs.

Either way the noise is not normal and the primary cover needs to come back off to see what's what.

ALSO FWIW Harley has a factory rep you can meet with if you insist either with the dealer management or with HD Customer service.

I hope your problems are resolved to your satisfaction.

Regards

Jerry

I'd inspect the fiber spacer in the compensator assembly...

Twolanerider · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2011, 10:48:01 PM »

Quote from: sadunbar on April 06, 2011, 10:44:17 PM

I'd inspect the fiber spacer in the compensator assembly...

Anyone want to take odds on whether it was assembled with a torque wrench or an impact wrench?

sadunbar · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2011, 10:54:23 PM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on April 06, 2011, 10:48:01 PM

Anyone want to take odds on whether it was assembled with a torque wrench or an impact wrench?

Either that....

Or the spacer slipped off it's shoulder when the comp nut was tightened....

Twolanerider · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2011, 11:21:35 PM »

Quote from: sadunbar on April 06, 2011, 10:54:23 PM

Either that....

Or the spacer slipped off it's shoulder when the comp nut was tightened....

Either way that softer and somewhat sacrificial piece is a goner. And noisy she will be.

I was at the local dealership a few weeks ago ogling a friend's new bike that had just arrived. We were standing in the service department and I just shook my head as watched a guy take an impact to one of these standing about six bike lifts up from where we were standing. As long as these things have been in service now you'd think some institutional memory would catch up....

smkblwr · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2011, 06:40:56 AM »

To my knowledge so far it has been ridden "yesterday morning" and the tech said it sounded like "POO POO" guess thats a technical term, but has not been opened up and inspected, nor has the manager called me. The manager told my wife who works there that he didn't want to call me and tell me that it sounds normal. she told him that probly wouldn't go over very well.
Funny guess i should have just kept riding my road king to play on and bought a Wing to actually tour on. hahaha I asked the Sales guy that sold my the ultra if he had a good used wing i could trade it in on. He smiled and said we will get it taken care of. i smiled. This thing has been a nite mare from day one. I just cant beleave the poor quality that is being produce by an american icon.

Half_Crazy · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2011, 06:45:44 AM »

If they rebuilt the engine and they didn't properly install the compensator, wouldn't the entire engine build be suspect? I mean what else did they not install properly?

This is exactly why I don't give a damn about warranty...

grc · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2011, 08:51:25 AM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on April 06, 2011, 10:48:01 PM

Anyone want to take odds on whether it was assembled with a torque wrench or an impact wrench?

That's why I asked the questions in my post, to determine if the noise started suddenly after the dealership worked on it. We've seen a consistent issue here since the SE compensator was introduced, basically that when the part is overtorqued or hammered with an impact, the thrust washer gets damaged and the compensator gets noisy. There is also a design issue with fretting due to a materials / lubrication problem, but that isn't something that just starts overnight. That part of the equation is something I could see the crooks in Milwaukee telling their dealers to blow off as normal, since the cheap SOB's don't want to pay to go back and fix their screwup. Pretty sad commentary on their abilities when the big deal SE replacement (designed to fix a really lousy stock compensator design but sold as an upgrade) turns out to be just as flawed but at twice the price.

Jerry

SBB · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2011, 09:05:14 AM »

Quote from: grc on April 07, 2011, 08:51:25 AM

There is also a design issue with fretting due to a materials / lubrication problem, but that isn't something that just starts overnight. That part of the equation is something I could see the crooks in Milwaukee telling their dealers to blow off as normal, since the cheap SOB's don't want to pay to go back and fix their screwup.

Jerry

Jerry

Can you explain further?

SBB

HDDOCFL · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2011, 09:17:04 AM »

Had the same type noise in my primary on the 09 SERG and the SE compensator cured the noise along with Formula+ as lube, 3000 miles and still quiet. Doc

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2011, 11:08:33 AM »

I went back and read somw other threads and based in the information gleened I would recommend you have the entire primary parts removed and inspected for the issues above AND the clutch basket, bearings, auto primary chain adjuster and chain.

It would take at most 30 minutes more to be sure everything is installed properly and absolutely nothing is damaged in the primary area.

They could assign another experienced mechanic (2nd set of eyes) at the PHD level to be sure all is well.

To me it's good customer relations and just may ensure that the issues is resolved permanently.

Best Wishes

Jerry

smkblwr · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2011, 09:30:03 PM »

ok guys, Yes motor was replace with non HD parts didn't see putting defective parts back in a already defective engine. So the engine is nolonger HD. The "clank" started after 700 miles of break-in after the new motor was built, never above 3k rpms, did pretty much the original break-in procedure, hopefully going on the DYNO to get a full tune with in the next 2weeks. So I went to check on things, the owner was waiting for me. There senior Tech went into it today along with the tech that reassembled it. then they got the owner involve. They checked everthing, also compaired my compensator to a new compensator. everthing checked out. after looking at it the owner said he was suprised that it just started making noise being the way it all fits together and how the design is of the internals is, he said it looks like it should have done it from the beginning. He wants to make it right. So they are taking it upon themselves to try different things. For now they have installed a stiffer spring to help take up some of the designed slack, not exactly sure what they did but. If that doesn't work he will look at possibly trying to manufacture a different bushing. Idleing in the shop after a test ride it was not "clacking". he did say that HD has a technial name for it which means that they know its an issue but are not ready to fix it basiclly. I also explained the problems from day one that i have had with it, crappy clear coat"still in a problem", the many and extended times in the shop for repairs. I told him that i was already looking at open primarys, and a baker 7spd because i beleave that those are the last of the mechanical parts that HD can't fix and will fail, and i count the noise as a failure waiting the happen, after which i was gonna peal the harley stickers off and make my own to replace them. He want to talk about those problems next week. which is ok with me. due to weather i will not pick it up till saturday in time for a New rider ride that i am helping the dealership with. so we will see if it is quite or if i get to answer question from new owers of why is you bike making that sound. should be interesting. For now i am calm, not happy but just calm about it. we will see. thanks for the replies

robertg · « **Reply #17 on:** April 07, 2011, 10:43:12 PM »

Quote from: HDDOCFL on April 07, 2011, 09:17:04 AM

Had the same type noise in my primary on the 09 SERG and the SE compensator cured the noise along with Formula+ as lube, 3000 miles and still quiet. Doc

What is Formula+ as lube? I googled it but didn't get anything.

Fired00d · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2011, 07:01:04 AM »

Quote from: robertg on April 07, 2011, 10:43:12 PM

What is Formula+ as lube? I googled it but didn't get anything.

FORMULA+ Transmission and Primary Chaincase Lubricant

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

dlaws01 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2011, 07:00:37 PM »

It's good to know that when I get real stupid and senile and the FAA suspends my airframe & powerplant license where I can no longer maintain aircraft, I will at least be able to get a mechanic's job at a H-D dealership!

Dan_Lockwood · « **Reply #20 on:** April 10, 2011, 10:38:53 AM »

I'll admit up front that I'm too lazy to go out in the garage and look in my '08 SE manual to find out the answer to the question I'm going to ask below. But this might be a good place to have it "written" in black and white versus just being in the manual for anyone that has a manual.

Just a quick question.

Is there a tool that locks into the teeth on the compensator to hold it while torquing, or is there something that connects to the clutch basket and you use the chain and clutch basket to hold the compensator while torquing?

Many years ago while working on snowmobiles, in similar cases like this, the factory just said to put a brass drift between the chain and sprocket to "lock" up the rotation of a shaft while you do your tightening or loosening of a particular part.

Thanks.

sadunbar · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2011, 01:37:31 PM »

Quote from: Dan_Lockwood on April 10, 2011, 10:38:53 AM

I'll admit up front that I'm too lazy to go out in the garage and look in my '08 SE manual to find out the answer to the question I'm going to ask below. But this might be a good place to have it "written" in black and white versus just being in the manual for anyone that has a manual.

Just a quick question.

Is there a tool that locks into the teeth on the compensator to hold it while torquing, or is there something that connects to the clutch basket and you use the chain and clutch basket to hold the compensator while torquing?

Many years ago while working on snowmobiles, in similar cases like this, the factory just said to put a brass drift between the chain and sprocket to "lock" up the rotation of a shaft while you do your tightening or loosening of a particular part.

Thanks.

Yes...

sadunbar · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2011, 01:39:36 PM »

You can find a locking tool here...

http://georges-garage.com/trans_06_up.htm

Boatman · « **Reply #23 on:** April 10, 2011, 07:04:19 PM »

With the SE compensator you don't need the locking tool as the outer compensator has a big nut on it that you can easily use a cresent wrench on while torqueing the bolt to keep everything from turning.

gmills · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2011, 08:13:38 PM »

had a lot of noise in the primary and dealer said normal, had the factory rep ride the bike and they replaced the compensator with the screamin eagle one and all is well now

Author Topic: Boulder in the Primary, normal? (Read 4385 times)

Half_Crazy

Half_Crazy